JDM reels: Are we being ripped off?

[iangler]

I agree with AmericanSkin. Not the place for racist remarks.

[Want]

Cal wrote:

Bottom line, if you feel the price is too high, then simply don't buy it.

Fair enough Cal. While I don't think there is an "international conspiracy" to sell reels to what in essence is a captive market, I do think there is value in exploring options and learning about various VIABLE alternatives. I mean competition is good for us and the vendors. (AND TT reviews and editor opinions, so far at least, form the basis of my tackle purchases). (IT's been GOOD Cal )

Doesn't mean that I value PLAT and Japan Tackle's customer service any less (the only vendors I've dealt with in my short career in buying JDM tackle). However, IMO knowing what's out there is the best way of being able to recognize that the price is too high or that the "value added" justifies that high price. Unfortunately, choosing an alternative with confidence seems like another matter entirely. And discussing that issue was the purpose of this post Oops: Forgot to say that I did buy from Ginrin. V.R.

[Cracker]

First of all I disagree with double standarts.
Our american online and retail tackle shops do better, honest business (Cabelas, Angler Workshop, BassPro). They charge people same price no matter where customer lives, here or overseas. Same prices in its retail stores, some times even online price could be lower!
But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

[matrix]

Which brings us back to the same point made by Cal et al......just dont buy if you're not happy with the price.

I know I don't, unless I'm deadly keen on something in particular and cant wait for friends to get it for me direct from Jpn. If if I end up paying a premium, I do it with eyes wide open.

[Papageno1791]

But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

As long as the rich Westerner with endless resources keep on buying JDM tackle without objecting the prices, the Japanese vendors will keep their prices high. Anyways, I think they are doing nothing illegal.
In a trip to China-Korea(S&N)-Japan in 2005, I was surprised to see that even in well-established stores, e.g., a mall, people are allowed to bargain as if they were in an Arab open-air market. For instance, I got a Canon Ixus-50 for just $200 USD, while the displayed price was $320.00. And it was in a well-established electronics store. But for a UK citizen, $320.00 is such a good price, since that camera would cost 350.00 pounds in a mall in London. That is the oriental culture. The price is a function of the client. A Japanese vendor will see nothing wrong when you ask for a discount, or you tell him/her you saw the same product at a lower price somewhere else (of course, you must say that politely). I say something like "I saw this product being offered at $XXX.00, but I definately prefer buying it from you because I see you are a reliable person...nevertheless, I'd highly appreciate a discount...". Many of us feel ashamed to ask for a discount , but prices are thought assuming the client will bargain. If they ask you $700.00 for a reel and you say nothing at that moment, do you think the vendor will offer you a discount out of good will?

[da house of hardy #1]

Many of us feel shame to ask for a discount

Yeah. Should I ask PLAT for a discount? I can be very polite , if I want (or need it)

[Johnny A]

I sold cars for quite a few years and I must say, from that experience, certain cultures have better negotiating skills than others. I learned quite a lot. It got to the point when people of certain backgrounds entered the showroom, they were mine by default.

[Vidar6]

But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

As long as the rich Westerner with endless resources keep on buying JDM tackle without objecting the prices, the Japanese vendors will keep their prices high. Anyways, I think they are doing nothing illegal.
In a trip to China-Korea(S&N)-Japan in 2005, I was surprised to see that even in well-established stores, e.g., a mall, people are allowed to bargain as if they were in an Arab open-air market. For instance, I got a Canon Ixus-50 for just $200 USD, while the displayed price was $320.00. And it was in a well-established electronics store. But for a UK citizen, $320.00 is such a good price, since that camera would cost 350.00 pounds in a mall in London. That is the oriental culture. The price is a function of the client. A Japanese vendor will see nothing wrong when you ask for a discount, or you tell him/her you saw the same product at a lower price somewhere else (of course, you must say that politely). I say something like "I saw this product being offered at $XXX.00, but I definately prefer buying it from you because I see you are a reliable person...nevertheless, I'd highly appreciate a discount...". Many of us feel ashamed to ask for a discount , but prices are thought assuming the client will bargain. If they ask you $700.00 for a reel and you say nothing at that moment, do you think the vendor will offer you a discount out of good will?

You are spot on in your comments

It did not take me long to learn that if you don't ask you don't get. I have on many occasions asked Plat to quote me their best possible price on a planned purchase and have as a consequence received a discount

[Fbass]

First of all I disagree with double standarts.
Our american online and retail tackle shops do better, honest business (Cabelas, Angler Workshop, BassPro). They charge people same price no matter where customer lives, here or overseas. Same prices in its retail stores, some times even online price could be lower!
But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

Not true at all! I firmly believe some Esellers in the US are trying their best to get rid or limit international orders. I've seen it time and time again. Yes the price is the same for everyone. But hen you have to add shipping, and it's not a good surprise. Like I said I could write a book about all the exemple I have. I shop a lot in the US for tackle, for me and all my friends who don't speak english! One exemple: I was going to order 3 spool of line from cabelas. Value $40. Shipping $35. I have lived in the United-States and I was selling a lot of items on ebay. I know shipping costs. I don't even want to imagine what sort of deal basspro or cabelas have with shipping companies. They must pay a fraction of what you and me would pay. It shouldn't have cost more than $15. And it's still a lot.
Look at subscription to most magazine, bassmaster, Inside line. It's double the price. Inside Line wants me to believe it will cost them $15 more to ship 6 issues to me than to you? and guess what? they send it surface mail. I received the bassmaster april issue yesterday!
It's always the same attitude when I get esellers on the phone: "yeah sure we'll have it shipped to you, but it's gonna cost you buddy!" Why does Powell charge $125 to ship 2 rods in the same package when only 1 rod costs $70? and tacklewarehouse charges $30 per rod in an individual package? huh? and it's FedEx!
Not all of them are like that off course, I could have many exemple of good (usually small) businesses that welcome international order. I guess they understand that 1 more sale is a few more bucks in their pocket! Basspro and cabeals have long forgotten that...and many others too!

[GAMEOVER]

Saratoga, this is off-topic and may be construed as inappropriate (Mods, please remove my post if deemed tangental), but your use of the epithet "Japanese" could be considered offensive to some members. TT seems to have open arms to members of all races and origins and we are all part of a collective fishing community. I've noticed other posts in general topic forums here that contain nationalistic, sometimes borderline racist remarks and it just doesn't make sense on this otherwise fantastic site.

Back to the original post: Cal, your sentiments are, as usual, dead on the mark.

I admit I use to use to the word "Japanese" before I was corrected by Cal on how its percieved. Its an easy mistake and I dont think he meant anything by it from now on just say Japanese tackle or JDM.

[Want]

Vidar 6 wrote:

I have on many occasions asked Plat to quote me their best possible price on a planned purchase and have as a consequence received a discount

On my next order with PLAT I will copy and attach this to my email.

[SPAZ]

First of all I disagree with double standarts.
Our american online and retail tackle shops do better, honest business (Cabelas, Angler Workshop, BassPro). They charge people same price no matter where customer lives, here or overseas. Same prices in its retail stores, some times even online price could be lower!
But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

Let's face it though..Cabelas, Bass Pro and other do not discount their reels. We still end up paying MSRP for all the high end reels and rods we buy here. I have never seen a 100DC or St Croix, G.Loomis rod cheaper than suggested retail in those stores. You will have to look online or other shops to get a cheaper price.

[Cracker]

First of all I disagree with double standarts.
Our american online and retail tackle shops do better, honest business (Cabelas, Angler Workshop, BassPro). They charge people same price no matter where customer lives, here or overseas. Same prices in its retail stores, some times even online price could be lower!
But JDM stores in Japan definetly put higher price for online international buyers, comparasing to sticker price for the same product in its local shops. They simply take advantage of our ignorance in japanese language.

Not true at all! I firmly believe some Esellers in the US are trying their best to get rid or limit international orders. I've seen it time and time again. Yes the price is the same for everyone. But hen you have to add shipping, and it's not a good surprise. Like I said I could write a book about all the exemple I have. I shop a lot in the US for tackle, for me and all my friends who don't speak english! One exemple: I was going to order 3 spool of line from cabelas. Value $40. Shipping $35. I have lived in the United-States and I was selling a lot of items on ebay. I know shipping costs. I don't even want to imagine what sort of deal basspro or cabelas have with shipping companies. They must pay a fraction of what you and me would pay. It shouldn't have cost more than $15. And it's still a lot.
Look at subscription to most magazine, bassmaster, Inside line. It's double the price. Inside Line wants me to believe it will cost them $15 more to ship 6 issues to me than to you? and guess what? they send it surface mail. I received the bassmaster april issue yesterday!
It's always the same attitude when I get esellers on the phone: "yeah sure we'll have it shipped to you, but it's gonna cost you buddy!" Why does Powell charge $125 to ship 2 rods in the same package when only 1 rod costs $70? and tacklewarehouse charges $30 per rod in an individual package? huh? and it's FedEx!
Not all of them are like that off course, I could have many exemple of good (usually small) businesses that welcome international order. I guess they understand that 1 more sale is a few more bucks in their pocket! Basspro and cabeals have long forgotten that...and many others too!

Shipping is completely different animal in that situation. You gotta pay more in that case. This is obvious.
My point and others who disagree on that situation, why we gotta pay more for the same product compare to Japanese citizens who buy locally or online in same tackle shops?
For example:
Japan resident orders ADM (American domestic product) from here - he pays same price as we do + shipping.
US residents usually pay higher price then Japan residents for the same product + shipping.
You can call it how you want - discrimination, ripping off, etc.

[KoYak]

Different parts of the world and different ethnic groups do business differently...Even in the US, areas with concentrations of ethnic groups will, many times, do business as if they were in their own country.

I see it this way. You need to adapt to survive in the business world. By selling JDM tackle to the US market, JDM tackle re-sellers have found another way to increase sales. They are also realizing higher profits for the merchandise they sell to US customers. Most of tackle purchasers (living in the US) are used to doing business the "American" Way - Pay the listed price. Are we losing out? I don't think so. It's a classic case of supply and demand. And of late, I think it's cheaper to buy JDM version instead of the US model. Also, I think most North American fishermen see JDM tackle as high end and are willing to pay a premium, creating more demand.

I think if you want the cheaper prices, you will have to start doing business "their" way.

Mike

[Papageno1791]

I think if you want the cheaper prices, you will have to start doing business "their" way.

Exactly!
Cal said if the price is OK for you, buy it, if not, do not buy it. There's a third option though: if the price for westerners is not OK for you, then do business the Japanese style. I chose that way.