full ceramic bearings...

[l2yan]

Does anyone have any experience with full ceramic bearings in their reels? I bet they are amazing, but the abec rating is only 1 rather than hybrid abec 7's. Does that mean their tolerances are not as tight and that they will not perform as fluid as abec7 hybrids? How is their performance? How should they be maintained. Should one even use any lube? I would think that they would run much faster than regular bearings b/c I could use ONLY brake cleaner on them and dont have to lube them for corrosion/wear resistance. My hybrid bearings always run much faster, smoother, and longer when I clean them with brake cleaner and before I lube them, but I know I must lube for wear and corrosion resistance. Ive searced through the forum and found that some people were trying them (or at least going to) but no one has posted any observations, tests, results, etc... VERY CURIOUS! Also with their extremely light total mass, wouldn't they start up MUCH faster than hybrids? Seems very nice for my finesse fishing!

Ryan

[l2yan]

Has no one used full ceramics yet??? Hard to believe...

[ChuckE]

I'm not surprised there hasn't been much response, since Boca and VXB are the typical suppliers most would use for upgrading them, and:

- The last time I check a couple months ago, these bearing suppliers didn't carry full ceramics in the sizes needed for spool bearings. VXB has a 5x11x4, but no 3x8x4 or 3x10x4. Boca doesn't have any of them in these sizes.

- At about $100 a bearing, the cost to performance ratio is very high. Most closest sizes are only rated ABEC 1, and offer poorer tracking when compared to ceramic hybrid or stainless steel ABEC 5 or 7 bearings. The gain achieved in a lighter center race is likely offset by poorer precision, and heavier solid PTFE or other cage. It would be difficult to justify costs, especially for an experiment, in this case.

- The only mass reduction would come from the center race, since the balls are already the same as in many ceramic hybrids. A bulky solid center race of PTFE or other material would probably even make the rotating mass a little heavier, when compared to a crown or two-piece SS cage in a ceramic hybrid.

- Most general purpose full ceramics don't have shields, unless they are meant for food, corrosive or severe service. [Some may be offered with seals not necessarily targeted for higher speed use like seen in our spool bearings -- more target toward skates, food or even motors that are greased instead of oiled or not lubricated at all.] Without shields they would foul easier, not retain oil as long, and would need to be cleaned/re-lubricated more often in our spools.

- You could likely run them without lubrication, but I'm not sure a typical angler could stand the noise of a full ceramic rotating at 20-30k rpm max that wasn't lubricated, especially with the mounting configuration used in our reels. They wouldn't be pre-loaded that heavily and can get quite noisy unless they have close clearance raceway design, are mounted differently, and dampened. [Our metal reels already tend to act like a small guitar; amplifying gear, bearing and other noise.]

While it's true that you can get them from bearing suppliers that offer NTN, SK and a few other manufactured brands, they are a lot more expensive than $100 per bearing -- and you typically need a commercial account to place an order. When you do you'll need to also specify the precision, pre-load, internal clearance, service speed, etc. , and you'll have to wait for them to come in. You pay a lot more, since they will usually come with the pedigree (paperwork) that specifies they meet the specifications you provided.

But who knows what will happen in the next 10 years?...just my thoughts.

Chuck

[l2yan]

Thanks a lot Chuck. I bought a couple 3x10x4's for $50 a piece and played around with them quite a bit. They do run faster than the hybrids if one is comparing the ceramics dry to the hybrids with oil (Rem-Oil). If compared dry to dry, the hybrids with much tighter tolerances run 30% longer. Hybrids are definitely the choice if one runs completely dry bearings, but how safe is using dry hybrids? I know they wear less than SS, but they aren't superman bearings like the ceramics, right? I think I'm gonna use my ceramics for a while since I spent the crazy dinero on them; plus, they make my 50mg sound like a Nascar!!

Note: I had to drill out the inside of the brake side bearing. The inside dimension (3) was much tighter compared to the hybrids and wouldn't even slide onto the spool!

Ryan

[trytofish]

i belive ceramic b/b would be good upgrade if youre fishing a lot on saltwater.again the first bearing to go normally on a daiwa baitcaster is the line roller ones following by the one that support the main shaft.

[l2yan]

Haha, very funny to see this topic again. I wouldn't dare purchase full ceramics anymore... those were just for experimental purposes. Thinking back 3+ years ago , they were the loudest think you could put in your reel!! Also, running them completely dry won't leave them vulnerable to corrosion like other bearings, but with no oil at all in the bearings, water easily can get in along with foreign contaminants from the water... I HIGHLY recommend we leave this thread in the grave and never give full ceramic bearings a thought again

[Nitroman77]

Trust me they are NOT worth it!

[Vladimir_Kazan]

For me a rotational stone bearings in fishing reels - originally and fundamentally a crazy idea. Stone (and wooden) bearings helped the Egyptians build the pyramids, but after the invention and improvement of steels, they have fallen into disuse.
Mutual support and movement of stone on steel (steel on stone) is remained where: 1/ load is minor, 2/ speed isn't big, 3/ it is not possible to change the grease regularly. For example, in a mechanical watches. In such conditions it gives good gliding at minimal overall dimensions and weight of bearing unit.
Fully stone bearings... I do not exclude the use of fully stone bearings in the reels. When (if) a stone bearings will be in mass production and they will be much cheaper than steel bearings, in cheap reels they could replace steel bearings.