oil and grease recommendations

[Markanthony404]

Since there are so many different opinions on this subject I wanted to get some recommendations for my particular situation. I'll be working on 2 Shimano Calcutta TE GT's and a classic 93 Shimano sustain, it's the same as the Stella F series was in Japan. I was fortunate enough to find a new main, pinion and idle gears for the sustain so I am being picky about what lubricants to use.

1.Please read all before commenting

2.The sustain has all new gears, 3 new Boca bearings and new stainless steel ball bearings that were replaced last year. The Calcutta's have all anti-Rust bearings. I would like to find an oil that would work good for all different types of bearings.

3. I fish freshwater only around 50 days a year.

4. I don't really need a super high-speed oil, I want the best performance I can get without having to re-lubricate more than twice a year.

5.I plan on Flushing each real completely before doing this.

6.Cost is not a big concern, I would be willing to pay more since these are all high-end reels.

7. Right now I'm leaning more towards the penn blue grease but if there's something better out there let me know.

8.I can't decide on which oil to buy. I would just purchase the Shimano oil and grease but I can't find them anywhere, it's not even on eBay! I have tried ardent reel oil and grease and I wasn't impressed. I also won't use the hot sauce because it's not recommended for Shimano and I have read the stories about it removing small amounts of gear material. If I can't get any good recommendations i'll probably buy 3 & 1 oil but I am hopeful you guys can recommend something better. Thanks

[Jeffbro999]

Penn grease is some really good stuff. I have been using it for the corrosion protection for fishing saltwater so it should be great for freshwater only. Reels are very smooth while using it and its cheap and readily available. For drags use Cals or Shimano drag grease. Been using the Shimano grease and drags work great with it. TW carries it.
For oil, TSI is the best I have found but again mainly for corrosion protection but it performs great and lasts forever. I have heard its not good on Boca ceramics but I've had no problems with it. For ARBs it's awesome. The 301 is better for shielded bearings because it is thinner and works its way in the bearing better but it has to dry completely before installation as it can't be used around plastic parts. Very fast, slick stuff.

[Markanthony404]

I guess I could take a chance on the TSI oil as long as it's works well for everything besides the Boca bearings. Do you know the viscosity of the TSI 321 and 301 when compared to the reel oil viscosity chart?

[Jeffbro999]

I'm not sure of the viscosity of it but I don't believe that's as important with this stuff as normal oil. After dipping bearings in it for a few minutes I lay them out on a paper towel and then blow out the excess with a can of compressed air. This leaves a very thin film and they appear dry. It leaves a microscopic film that fills and bonds to the pores of the metal. It's an excellent penetrating lube to to free up rusted parts to.

[lpquick]

I pulled the following from the TSI website:

Why TSI 301 Synthetic Lubricant Works Better
Petroleum-based, silicone, wax, graphite, Teflon, and molybdenum disulphide lubricants put a relatively thick film on top of a metal surface. The lubricant rests on top of any corrosion already present, and under pressure and usage is worn away relatively quickly, requiring constant replenishment. TSI 301 sinks into the pores of metal. Very little is required. Even when it appears to be dry it is there. It creates a thin film which tends to uproot corrosion or contaminants. It bonds itself to the surface of the metal through physical adsorption reducing surface tension, practically eliminating friction and reducing wear. It does not build up into gummy deposits.
Cleans away rust and contamination better.
TSI 301 contains a mixture of solvents whose Kauri Butanol Value of 95 (solvency power) makes TSI 301 an extremely effective solvent. TSI 301 dissolves organic contaminants such as grease and tar, and loosens frozen or rusted parts by breaking down iron oxide crystals into a mush which is floated away by TSI 301's higher density.

Superior lubrication efficiency.
TSI 301's super low viscosity means less internal resistance to rolling or shearing motion. TSI 301's high viscosity index means that as temperatures climb it will not thin out excessively as other products do. When temperatures drop it will not solidify easily. As a result of its friction reducing characteristics it saves energy and transmits power more efficiently.

Penetrates faster.
TSI 301's low viscosity and low surface tension all it to cover difficult spaces better and to squeeze rapidly into the smallest spaces. TSI 301's high Kauri Butanol dissolve and replace iron oxide crystals away.

Does not attract dirt, dust, or lint.
TSI 301 surface characteristics and wear stability discourage the collection of outside contaminants. TSI 301 bonds to surfaces by physics adsorption forming a high strength micro thin (less than 1 mil) film. It feels dry to the touch and will not wet or absorb dust easily. It does not break down into guns with use, making it ideal for lubricating precision products.

Displaces water better.
TSI 301's higher density (10.2 lbs. gal) and its low surface and interfacial tensions cause it to flow quickly under moisture. These water displacement qualities put an end to moisture caused short circuits improving electrical contact. TSI 301's excellent wetting ability and tendency to bond with metal gives it an unmatched barrier to moisture. TSI 301 therefore protects against steam and water corrosion.

Increased wear protection.
TSI 301 increases part life and breaks in new machines and tools better because of its low viscosity and wide temperature range. Its low viscosity and shear stability mean less friction. Its propensity not to collect abrasive contaminant like dirt and dust and not to oxidize or break down means its better lubrication value is not being eroded by use. TSI 301 reduces distortion of threads in soft metals. TSI 301 simplifies the working of hard to work metals. As a result TSI 301 can also mean enhanced machine output, longer tool life, and greater productivity.

Wider temperature range.
TSI 301's operating range is from -60˚ F to +450˚ F. In addition because TSI 301's viscosity is so stable over this range it is more efficient than other lubricants saving equipment subjected to unexpected extremes. Unlike oils its structure does not break down or oxidize under extended high temperature operation.

Reduced residue (varnish, gum, sludge, carbon)
TSI 301 is a synthetic organic ester. It is not a petroleum based oil. It does not contain suspended particles (such as Teflon, graphite, molybdenum), nor is it a polyglycol. It's residue is less than .196. It does not build up, form gummy deposits or break down into sticky tars and abrasive carbons. TSI 301 does not oxidize as a result of temperature or air contact, so it does not form corrosive organic acids as it is being used. As a result TSI 301 continues to lubricate long after others have stopped working.

Better rust & corrosion protection.
TSI 301 seals metal away from corrosion. Its low surface tension allows it to form a film which covers even complex surfaces completely. TSI 301's low permeability keeps air and water from penetrating. With use more products oxidize lowering their surface resistance to water and air permeation. TSI 301 does not oxidize with use so its protection lasts long after others have failed. TSI 301 needs only one coat to work.

Less flash and fire hazard.
TSI 301 unlike most products will not burn. It has no flash point. It is safe to use near fires or on hot metals. With reduced fire hazards insurance premiums can often be lowered.

Reduced lubricant consumption.
TSI 301 needs to be replaced much less frequently then other products. It does not burn off like solid lubricants nor does it oxidize like petroleum based products. It has a low vapor pressure at even elevated temperatures and tends to cling to the metal surfaces by physics adsorption. Less TSI 301 is used and considerable savings can be realized.

Withstands extreme pressure.
TSI 301's physical bonding to the surface of metals (adsorption) and its high film strength allows it to form a lubrication boundary as small as (10-7 inches) thick. TSI 301 operates where surface type lubricants would break down or be squeezed out.

Superior high speed performance.
TSI 301 maintains its laminar flow characteristics at speeds of even 10,000 RPM's. Operating temperature and friction causing turbulence is reduced because of it's low viscosity.

Viscosity is the resistance of a liquid to flow. The viscosity of a lubricant can affect friction loss, load carrying capacity, heat generation and film thickness. TSI 301's low viscosity means lower internal friction loss.

The viscosity index is a measure of the relationship between viscosity and temperature. The higher the index the more stable the viscosity is over a wide temperature range. TSI 301's high index provides better wear protection at high and low operating temperatures.

Does not conduct electricity (anti-static).
TSI 301 has an unusually high dialetic constant giving it many unique electrical properties. Voltages as high as 41,000 volts and long term nuclear radiation (10-11 rads) do not break down TSI 301. It is ideal for electronic equipment because it is a non-conductor. It does not collect static electricity or affect electrical properties. It has proven effective to prevent tuner drift. It reduces arcing. TSI 301 reduces galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals.

Will not stain.
TSI 301 is a greaseless synthetic compound, it is not oil based or a suspension of solids. Its solvent base is often used for cleaning components. Unlike other products it does not tend to collect dirt and grime. TSI 301 does not stain fabrics.

Prevents seizure.
TSI 301 prevents high speed seizure by being an extremely good conductor of heat away from critical surfaces. Because of its superior viscosity characteristics it also lubricates better, resulting in less heat being generated. TSI 301's ability to bond to metal surfaces makes it extremely protective even after years of use. As a result it is a superior anti-seize compound.

Better results with high performance metals.
TSI 301 has a low sulfur and halogen residue. It does not contain heavy metals such as lead or mercury. It will not cause stress corrosion, cracking, or hydrogen embrittlement of such metals as stainless steel, magnesium, or titanium.

Preservers wood & leather.
TSI 301 is an effective preservative of wood and leather surfaces. Its tendency to bond with the surface and its low viscosity cause it to cover the surface. It is very effective on leather hinges and wood exposed to the elements.

Easier disposal.
TSI 301 is more biodegradable than petroleum based lubricants making it less expensive and easier to dispose of.

Convenient to use.
TSI 301 comes in a variety of ready to use aerosol and bulk containers to meet every need. Its many applications make it a replacement for the many limited use lubricants on the market.

[Jeffbro999]

Thanks for the info Lpquick, learned some good stuff from that. I was told it was like a dry lube with suspended particles in a liquid but I guess I was informed wrong. Good write up , glad to find out the correct info. Most of this is definitely true as I have seen it first hand.

[pro reel]

Been using the TSI for over a year now and love it. I use the 301 on bearing so i can just dip them , shake off the excess and let them dry a bit. I use the thicker 321 on anything else that gets oil. The 321 doesn't have any solvent so it can be used on anything. I don't like using the 301 on ceramic bearings. I'm not saying it slows them down more than oil, but it does slow them down. The point of using ceramics is to get maximum free spin and coating the balls with anything slows them down. Therefore, with ceramics I normally just coat the outside with thin oil. I now am trying to coat the outside of ceramic bearings with the tsi 321 and put a small drop inside. I then use air to blow as much of it out as I can get out and that seems to work good while still coating all the steel with a lube that bonds to the steel.

[Markanthony404]

I pulled the following from the TSI website:

Why TSI 301 Synthetic Lubricant Works better.

That sounds great if it's all true, I might try the TSI 321. Sounds like it will be a great all around oil and I'm not sure I would like the solvents that are in the 301. Has anyone compared the TSI oil to the Penn X1r oil ?

[Bronzeye]

I pulled the following from the TSI website:

Increased wear protection.
... Its propensity not to collect abrasive contaminant like dirt and dust and not to oxidize or break down means its better lubrication value is not being eroded by use.

This should make it ideal as the lubricant on a baitcaster's worm shaft, if it holds up to the scraping of the pawl. Anybody used it for this purpose for at least several months, and checked out the worm shaft and pawl afterward?

Also, is the TSI 321 now available from any online tackle retailers or hobby shops, or must it still be purchased direct from the manufacturer?

[lpquick]

I haven’t been able to find it from anyone except the manufacturer. I have had excellent results using it on stock SS bearings and was thinking it would be ideal for the worm shaft as you mentioned. I plan on doing just this and we shall see how well it holds up this year for inshore use.

[Jeffbro999]

I have been using it on the worm shaft and other areas including the ARB for 8 months now, no issues at all with the pawl or excess backplay in the ARB. I dip the pawl and the gear it rides on and dip the inner tube and spin it in the ARB.
Used to use the Penn oil also as it came with the grease. It is pretty good but didn't last very long. I don't have a problem maintaining my reels and adding oil but fishing saltwater it becomes a pain having bearings still rust and pit after a few months, that's why I went with the TSI and its a huge difference.
There's I think 2 or 3 places that sell the stuff, I bought it straight from the manufacturer. Shipping is a little high but a 4oz bottle should last a very long time.

[phatbass]

just call shimano and just buy the lube and oil directly

[Markanthony404]

just call shimano and just buy the lube and oil directly

I could do that but I have heard there are better options out there like the Penn Greece and other high quality oils.

[Markanthony404]

Question guys, what's the deal with people dipping their bearings inside TSI oils? I could do this whenever I clean the reels out but I don't want to have to do this all the time.

[Jeffbro999]

Question guys, what's the deal with people dipping their bearings inside TSI oils? I could do this whenever I clean the reels out but I don't want to have to do this all the time.

You can apply by dripping it like regular oil but dipping is just easier. The opening of the bottle is big enough to do this and it allows it to coat the whole bearing inside and out, mainly for saltwater use to prevent rust. You should only have to do this once every 6-9 months if that, it lasts a long time. Only need to relube when the bearings get loud and mine are going on 9 months and still quiet.