Roller clutch issues?

[LgMouthGambler]

I thought I made a thread, but maybe my computer backed it out? Anyways, was looking to see how many people out there are having roller clutch failures with the newer reels. I have never personally worn one out, and am seeing more than I ever have recently. I know the new trend is heavy braid, lock the drag down, fish with a broomstick, and set the hook like you are driving a nail into a 2x4 (down here anyways). But I have replaced more in the last year than I have in 10 years. What gives? Shimano, Daiwa, Lews/Doyo reels all included. I have done new Aldebarans and Curado Ks (Shimano being more popular down here). Anyone else seeing this?

Thoughts?

[ShimanoFan]

Your thread is still there. Just in the import and enthusiast board:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=81479&p=654184#p654184

[LgMouthGambler]

Your thread is still there. Just in the import and enthusiast board:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=81479&p=654184#p654184

Well how in the hell did that happen?

Oh well. These bearings are blown apart, and plastic/rubber cage broken apart.

[poisonokie]

I've never had to replace one, but the damnedest thing happened last time I took a side plate off a Zillion SV. The roller clutch just fell out of it. I just set it aside until I was ready to put it back together and of course I put it in backwards. Then it was a pain to get out and one of the rollers came loose when I was trying to push it back out. I put it all back together and it works just fine.

[Slazmo]

Only one that's failed on me was out of that rattty Calais DC, was a tiny bit rusty and a bit noisy.

But I replaced it and viola back in business. I think most don't lubricate them enough, they're still bearings and they're taking some force especially those that I see over there hook setting like setting anchor on a freighter.

I lubricate excessively without any negative effects - even to the point of using 00 NLGI grease to help against corrosion and wear on some reels used in saltwater.

To clarify: I'm commenting on baitcaster reels AR's I use grease in a couple without ill effects due to the grease being so fine, the rest I keep oiled but enough to keep the water out. Spinning reels do not get greased whatsoever - only oiled.

The new AR bearings in the new lower end LT reels rust very quickly - the stainless is of very low quality and I've replaced a few already, unlike prior series reels.

[lifeofRiley]

I agree with slazmo. I now oil up my roller clutches with 3 or 4 drops of oil and no ill effects to speak of. I had installed a few this spring dry in shimano low pros and they rusted and got squeaky right away. Fresh water only

[ShimanoFan]

using 00 NLGI grease to help against corrosion and wear on some reels used in saltwater.

Slazmo, grease is not a recommended lubricant because it can gum up the needle bearings and prevent them from moving into place and cause AR operation failure.

I work in a rod and reel repair shop and we never use grease. On some AR bearings it even says right on the bearing "NO GREASE" in big letters.

As to failure rates of AR bearings... we have a ton of reels come through our shop, and we do not see a lot of AR bearings failing. A very small percentage. Most are rusted. But broken AR bearings are rare even for a high volume central Florida reel repair shop like ours.

I'll add, I see more AR failures due to over use of grease more so than I see failures due to the AR bearing itself.

[Slazmo]

Recommended by whom. Pretty sure we've all got our ways that work, even mysteriously without ever "gumming up". Synthetic 00 NLGI greases aren't like your clay based wheel bearing greases of yesteryear.

[LgMouthGambler]

I use grease on AR bearings, but the right way, not packing them like some would to a frame bearing. Thats where problems start happening. Oil can just run off, grease will stick. To each their own, just like some like to use oil on the levelwind, and some use grease.

[ShimanoFan]

Recommended by whom. Pretty sure we've all got our ways that work, even mysteriously without ever "gumming up". Synthetic 00 NLGI greases aren't like your clay based wheel bearing greases of yesteryear.

It is not recommended. It is commanded by some of the brands themself. Here let me show you...

The following is an AR bearing found on a spinning reel. It is very plainly written in plain English using LARGE all capital letters for all to see and read and follow the command NO GREASE. It is by far the largest printed lettering to be found on such bearings for a reason.

And it is not a recommendation at all, but a command of the brand who made the reel. And that command is not directed to professional reel technicians. It is put there for all the end users who don't know any better and wind up screwing up their reels and sending it or them back to the brand for repair.

It happens so often, and is precisely why the brand chose to have the AR bearing made with the direct command printed in large capital letters so the end user will not miss the explicit command of the brand.

Now, the following bearing shown with NO GREASE plainly written on it has solid STEEL springs that move the needle bearings into place so it can operate as designed. Grease of any weight, or any composition is strictly forbidden. That is why it is written on the bearing for all to see NO GREASE means NO GREASE.



Now, the AR bearing found in most baitcast reels are of lighter weight needle bearings which are easier to stick up and gum up with grease and those small needle bearings have very weak plastic springs which are to push the needle bearing into place so its anti-reverse can operate properly.

So when you put grease into any AR bearing, can you guarantee all needle bearings are moving into correct position for proper operation? What if one or two needle bearings are not moving into place? The bearing may still work and seem like it is working, but there are fewer needle bearings carrying the load and could lead to premature failure.

I've been working on reels since I was 14 years old, and now 54, and I do it professionally in a shop that has been in business repairing reels for 32 years.

And I am saying we do not ever use grease on AR bearings. Not going to happen.

But if you or anyone else out there wants to use grease then by all means please do. We get tons of reels in our front door all the time who's only problem is grease gumming up the AR bearings. A quick and easy fix most of the time.

Me personally, I could not care less what you use on your reels. Do as you please. But this is tackle tour and the correct advice should be the norm around here, not some guy on the internet said to use so and so. That sort of advice causes others to follow what you say here and screw up their reels all across America and around the globe and only helps shops like ours see more business.

We now call them "forum reels" for a reason and this would be it. All I am trying to do here is bring some balance to wide variety of advice found here and elsewhere that the brands themselves do not recommend. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I was shown a reel yesterday that came off a forum like this one packed with grease. We do get a laugh out of what we see in the shop, but it is not fun cleaning up the messes we find in a lot of reels where the owner got his advice from some forum or youtube.

[LgMouthGambler]

A forum is a "guide". Read and do at your own risk. Period.

[ShimanoFan]

A forum is a "guide". Read and do at your own risk. Period.

I know, but that is why there is such a large and growing problem because of forums... how would you like to be the mailman delivering hundreds or thousands of packages of forum reels dripping with and oooozing out the "forum recommendations" and advice and hot sauce and other chemicals recommended on forums across America?

How would you like to be the one receiving those forum reels daily? And it is your job to clean them up and repair them and have to suffer the contact with unknown chemicals and oozing oils and greases and god knows what else?

It is a problem, but for those sitting at home with one reel to contend with are not thinking about those places and people were growing numbers of such reels are concentrating in growing numbers.

Some brands are now sending them back to where they came from for a reason.

No harm in trying to combat some of the bad advice found on forums.

I was warned by top level executives from one of the major brands that I would be wasting my time trying to combat it on the front lines of forums. And you know LMG after 2 years of trying I'd have to say they are right, and come ICAST I will again revisit this problem with some of those executives and various brands.

What they are doing is engineering increasingly sophisticated products the end user can not repair. And an increase in special technologies and special tools required to service increasing numbers of reels. This is how brands combat the end users who want to tinker with them.

As the forum reel problem increases so to will the brands seek ways to prevent it rather than try and do it through frontline forum efforts they consider hopeless and non-effective. 2 years ago I was uncertain of it. Today, I now know the top level executives I discussed it with were 100% correct. It is hopeless, but if there was ever one U.S. forum that should try and follow the line on brand recommendations for their products it should be tackle tour.

Just sayin' LMG... we have a growing problem... it is not getting better.

[LgMouthGambler]

So you are complaining that you have job security? Thats what I am hearing...if you dont like your job, then quit.

Personally, when people send me reels that they have tried to fix themselves and screw it up, I make some money. When they take them apart and cant put them together, I make some more money. I dont see what the problem is?...

I get what you are saying, but, I dont have a solution for you. I work on cars, you wanna see what I deal with?

[ShimanoFan]

So you are complaining that you have job security? Thats what I am hearing...if you dont like your job, then quit.

Quit? No, I'm planning on retiring. This may be my last year of fixing forum reels. Let younger people carry that load. The burdens of the world will shift to them one by one... heck you are young! Look how many more years you have ahead of you fixing problems caused by bad advice! Decades ahead of you.

Fortunately for me, at my age, I am going to get out before the avalanche which is building now.

My new career is investment management and property management that does not involve grease and chemicals any longer and fixing everyone else's problems for a career. Been there. Done that. Just about over and out! I spell quit r-e-t-i-r-e-m-e-n-t.

I get what you are saying, but, I don't have a solution for you. I work on cars, you wanna see what I deal with?

I can only imagine your piles of dirty grease, oils, and chemicals makes reels look like nothing by comparison. Just remember LMG, contact can mean carcinogen so be careful and don't let the bad advice of misguided end users tinkering with their products be the death of you!

I'm having to detox now from years of touching and using lead solder on the bench. I have higher levels of metals I need to detox from. Don't join this club...

[LgMouthGambler]

So you are complaining that you have job security? Thats what I am hearing...if you dont like your job, then quit.

Quit? No, I'm planning on retiring. This may be my last year of fixing forum reels. Let younger people carry that load. The burdens of the world will shift to them one by one... heck you are young! Look how many more years you have ahead of you fixing problems caused by bad advice! Decades ahead of you.

Fortunately for me, at my age, I am going to get out before the avalanche which is building now.

My new career is investment management and property management that does not involve grease and chemicals any longer and fixing everyone else's problems for a career. Been there. Done that. Just about over and out! I spell quit r-e-t-i-r-e-m-e-n-t.

I get what you are saying, but, I don't have a solution for you. I work on cars, you wanna see what I deal with?

I can only imagine your piles of dirty grease, oils, and chemicals makes reels look like nothing by comparison. Just remember LMG, contact can mean carcinogen so be careful and don't let the bad advice of misguided end users tinkering with their products be the death of you!

I'm having to detox now from years of touching and using lead solder on the bench. I have higher levels of metals I need to detox from. Don't join this club...

Dont worry. You'll have years of people bitching and crying about everything under the sun doing property management. Lol.

As far as the chemicals, I wear gloves most of the time depending on what I'm doing. And have been working on cars since I was 14. I would never use anything that involves heating lead without gloves or HEPA mask. Come to think of it, I dont solder at all. Lol.

Anyway, you make it sound worse than it can be. Maybe you need to get ththeththem to clean that place up a little better? That's why I do private work, I control my environment.