Pre service reels and question for Slaz

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lifeofRiley
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Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by lifeofRiley » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:49 pm

Hey Slazmo, this was a quote of yours from the "bang for your buck" post.

"Most if not all reels are damn good out of the box these days. But more importantly is to pre service the reel out of the box which'll add years to its life. That first few initial uses with factory grease is what decides their fate." Slazmo

I'm wondering if you could elaborate on this. I've got a stable a little north of 40 reels, somewhere around 85% casting the balance spinning. Most of them are old soldiers from the golden age; CU Bs CU Es, CH As, CH Ds, CH50Mgs, etc. The spinners are all stradics of various models. I do buy a few new reels every year, but I have very rarely done a pre service. That being said if on the maiden voyage a casting reel is stiff I'll drop oil on the spool bearings, give it a check over etc. Do you think that factory grease is bad for the reels? I know from your postings you experiment w/a lot of different oil and grease which I think is great. Myself I've tried a few greases(ardent, penn, cal's, superlube) but in the end I mainly use Shimano's standard grease on my reels. Many new reels I simply use for a long period of time before I service them(it all depends on the application). If one starts to perform subpar I take it out of the lineup and clean it when time allows. Sadly I haven't cleaned many lately because I didn't get to fish enough last season!

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:32 am

Hey bud.

While it's not the quality of the OE grease of most manufacturers that's spurious, I mean some are totally trash specifically that clear lime tinge jelly looking stuff you occasionally see in lower spec reels. But the quality of mass production application where the poor wretch has 0.000000000001 seconds to apply grease to the main and pinion gear or adequately to any other part of the reel, their concern is to assemble reels not worry too much about the lubrication ultimately (well that's what I infer).

And the reels I've seen that of my own and others have been so hastily built that large chunks of aluminium or other manufacturing swarf from manufacture / assembly has been left inside or has passed through the gear system a few times to do untold wear and damage...

First thing I do of any reel I own regardless of quality or price is run it through, wash it out and rebuild it with the grease and oils I know and trust... While I know Shimano greases are good quality for the better part, the buy price vs quantity are the areas that pointless to me as per the volume I need, I'm not going to buy 4 tubes for $100 Aud when it would buy me half a tube of the matine grease I've been using for over a decade and that same one an old friends been using since its inception with great results... Its a Ford vs. Holden argument of sorts though.

With the stiff bearings ex factory, if you remove the circlip'd shields or punch them out as I do if they're ressed in, you'll notice the grease they are lubed up with. Simply adding oil to them cuts the grease but doesn't remove it, I flush them and apply only 2 drops of a modified Inox oil to spool bearings and a super low NLGI grease to frame bearings with a oil to cut that down to a light solution to keep water at bay.

If people are going to use a reel out of the box, there isn't anything that will befall them instantly, it's just worrying to see reels with a tiny smudge of grease on their main gear, I have detailed pictures of it and many years of it to prove it, but for me like a car it's worthwhile to get the OE oils out / change that oil filter and get a good quality oil into the engine for best results. I mean my latest car a ASX I got it home and dumped all the oils and liquids and got new gear into it and it was only a 1k Kms drive home. As to the Tranx I got the other day, straight home and straight into it and cleaned out to be reassembled with grease and oils where it should be for a decent start to its life well lubricated - winds freely and smoothly than out of the box...

Everyone is different but I think starting a reel on the right foot for a decent season of fishing is the right way to go about it, otherwise you'll never end up hearing the "this reels crap" argument...

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by lifeofRiley » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:22 am

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, it makes a lot more sense to me now. I'll break down the next new reel I buy and give it a clean and relube. I've got no clue what Holden is by the way :? must be an Australian thing

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:25 pm

Ahh yeh sorry... Ford vs Chev or whatever the prevailing taste for vehicles is over there? Holden was an Australian subsidiary of GM for donkey years, a good sort of vehicle suited for us but recently closed down with the rest of them...

But seriously wash out a reel and try to capture the washout solution into a clear vessel like a Pyrex dish that you can see through or something that'll contrast and look for contamination.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:46 pm

Case in point for a near new old stold stock 2004 Certate. How little grease did it start with?
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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:19 pm

If anyone wants to add to this post go nuts. I'd be interested to hear others opinions or directions too.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:24 am

I also grease the face edges of the frame gaps with thick grease, to minimize infiltration there. Then just wipe off the excess after tightening the body screws. You would think it wouldn't happen, but I've seen telltale streaks of discoloration on a sw reel before when I opened it for service.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by uljersey » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:30 am

I pretty much do the same thing to all of my reels, and I don't own any of what what would be considered (on this site at least) uber high end pieces. A Daiwa Sol & an Alphas SV105 are pretty much the pinnacles of my lineup. I'm a mechanic by trade and since childhood have been disassembling/tinkering/tweaking anything I get my hands on. I even drove teachers crazy back in my school days by dismantling staplers and click type pens at my desk out of boredom.

I've heard the argument that you shouldn't open a reel while it's in warranty, fair enough I suppose. Out of the box I go through all of the paces of operation ... if clutch engagement/disengagement is ok, spool and drag adjustments can be performed adequately and overall normal operation can be verified, then I'll open it up and pretty much do as Slazmo described above. If something is out of whack out of the box, it goes back for a refund or exchange.

One thing I am a stickler about is drag performance, so I always lap the metal drag washers to achieve the maximum flatness possible.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Jeffbro999 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:38 am

Good points made Slazmo, definitely some things you don’t think to look for. The main thing to worry about for me fishing inshore is greasing the inside race of the pinion bearing so the pinion doesn’t get stuck to it, and using something with good corrosion protection on the ARB so it doesn’t start knocking or seize up. I do a full service on all my salt reels anyways so it covers these things, but those are the main problem areas I’ve seen over and over fished straight out of the box. Shimano used to do a good job of lubing reels for protection against the salt with the E series and before, and could go months without having any issues. Now it takes about 2 trips before those two problem areas show up. No one uses Daiwa in the salt around here so I can’t comment on them.

Freshwater use still gets run through and relubed, with a little more attention to free spin and a little less protection. Never really had or seen many problems from reels used specifically in freshwater.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:48 pm

Yeh I probably should've touched on warranty too...

For most of my time I don't care for it. I buy a reel, I pre service it and I use it. I seriously can't be too bothered for trying to retain a X year warranty* as to jump through the hoops to retain it - its either a solid X year or whatever warranty or its stipulated very clearly that it's reliant on yearly return to base for cleaning as to validate it... The back to manufacture services scheme just isn't for me relative to the faults I ever experience, or now will with the frequency of fishing I manage with a newborn. I totally agree with the manufacturers and their warranty and their need to do a proper job with specialist care, technical and whatever they do better; but its not for me.

And now with specialist tools / magic coatings and oils as to keep the smaller guys out it gets harder to keep the faith.

If there comes an issue like the Chronarch e defect, and it happened all so eloquently as it did to me by the clutch leg loosing self control and throwing itself into pieces into the idler gears to blow them up mid wind, and halt fishing that day with that reel... I'll just repair it without going to the need to send it and argue anything of it especially the 10 year warranty or remainder of it and why I didn't send it back every year for the sake of $30 of parts and postge and a light rebuild. If its more of an issue like buzzy gears ($60 replacement cost circa) after a short amount of time, I'll speak to them discuss it and go from there... If its a cause from neglect I mean why bother try to claim, you just make yourself look like a goose...

I think for most, I'll stress that the back to base services are vital regardless of the manufacturer to retain that warranty that a lot need, but speaking for myself and a select few others of the self service / repair and modification clan, is that it's the way to enjoy your gear a little more and to quieten the self questioning of how right / thoroughly the job was done?

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by lifeofRiley » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:17 pm

The Curado E and Chronarch E is the reel I've spent the most time with. I was never aware of a defect. What exactly is the clutch leg? The post that the anti-reverse pawl is seated on? One of the tabs on the inner tube? I once fixed a budy's reel(CH100A) where a screw backed out of the clutch cam retainer and went into the idle gears. Needless to say they needed to be replaced!

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:07 pm

BNT3828 - Clutch Pawl... Monkey metal and just a lot of them have let go, why unsure? Like the production that went on after the E series Curado they seemed to be a bit dicky? I've replaced a couple and other likewise. I just make people aware of it just in case it happens as to not keep winding...

Otherwise they're a fine reel...
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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by lifeofRiley » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:31 pm

Thanks for the heads up!! I think I've got 8 CU E's and 3 CH E's. Now I'll be prepared if this ever happens.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by BARRAMANIAC » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:16 pm

Definitely agree with you Andrew on pre servicing. I haven't come across to many reels that have adequate grease on the gears from new, apart from Penn reels which seem to have to much of that blue grease in them. Price point doesn't matter either weather its a Stradic or a Stella or Tatula or a Steez most have a small dab and I have come across a few where that dab of grease didn't even make it onto the gears and is just in a random spot inside the frame.

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Re: Pre service reels and question for Slaz

Post by Slazmo » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:51 pm

Here are some from this week's run.

Exist 2506.
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Exist 2506 maingear
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Certte 2004CH.
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Certate 2004CH maingear
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Certate 2004CH metal shavings
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It also came with bonus metal shavings as seen in the magseal magnet O-ring...

Why do I say or suggest "Pre service" - imagine these going through the gears?

And before anyone suggests I'm Daiwa bashing... If I were on my laptop I'd post many numerous pictures of shimano reels of my own and others - but I'm working off my phone for these above cases.

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