Hot Sauce harms Shimano reels?

[Want]

Bantam wrote

Do not use the "Hot Sauce" in any Shimano reel. We have found that they use a polishing compound in the grease that actually removes .001" or more from our gear surface. It will make the gear feel nice and smooth initially and then they become very rough and noisy. Stick with our Teflon based grease.

Bantam, I thought that this should be separate topic so I copied it from the other post. Should you not make this publicly known? Reading the posts it seems that a lot of guys here use Hot Sauce, including me. How long does it take for the gear surface to be reduced?

Does Shimano Inc. have a disclaimer against the use of Hot Sauce?

[quickF4i]

damn, funny thing is that i have had a tube of hot sauce grease sitting around for like a year.. of all my shimano baitcasters (5) i never used it... i always used penn precision or super lube w/ teflon... until recentley i re-greased my chronarch Mg and decided to give the hot sauce a try.. it feels REALLY smooth, better than new. and now i read this! i guess i should take it apart again!

[JBA]

I was using the grease in all of my shimanos until I found out about the polishing compound in the grease. I cleaned all of the hot sauce out and added new grease. The real kicker is before I found out that you're not supposed to use it I found a place that had a really good deal on hot sauce so I stocked up on it.

[E man]

Does that also apply to the oil?

[HeavyMetalBassinKing]

I know this is for Shimano product support, but I'm worried that the Hot Sauce might be harming my reels...I have it on both of my Shimanos (the oil) and my 2 Daiwas also...
Will it affect Daiwa reels as well?

[dragon1]

My guess is that if Hot Sauce has a "polishing" agent in it, it will affect just about any reel...eventually.

[GAMEOVER]

They have worked on reels and used everything out there. D.R.s been working on reels since his Zebco days and before. Hes worked on thousands of reels with Quantum lube in them since its been in existance. I bet he hasnt seen one ill effected reel because of Hot Sauce grease or oil. Hopefully he posts to this if not PM him and ask yourself. Him and ChuckE are the ones who got me using it. One thousandths of what im guessing is a millimeter is absolutely silly and im sure happens from when stuff wears in no matter what lubricant is used. Quantum isnt a favorite reel company of mine overall but their Hot Sauce product is proven. Dont take your reels apart and scrub the Hot Sauce out. I have this stuff in all of my reels except my Sol at the moment and im probably going to use it in all of my future reels until a proven future product gets released. Maybe Shimano can come out with a low viscosity oil and high tech grease that will out perform the rest. So many have. Ardent I think is the latest and I had that in my Zillion, I didnt/dont care for it. Shimanos oil/grease is ancient and higher performance can be acheived with lower viscosity oils and more technologically advanced greases. Bantam *hint have Shimano release a new high tech teflon or whatever based oil that will out perform the other grease and oils out there, ill buy it! Here's a test chart that was put together by some very reputable people. Shimano has awsome reels, theres no question about it but the stock grease oil they use doesnt meet todays standards with all the technology available. Since your here Bantam im trying to encourage you to push yourself and others around you at Shimano to do the best job they can do (not saying you or the rest dont) and come out with more stuff some of us would love to see. Basically keep you on your toes its my job as a consumer.

The Hot Sauce can be completely removed to ask ChuckE and D.R.. Its the dye/additive thats in it that makes it harder to remove, but it does come off.

[D.R.]

I have to agree with a lot of what GO said. I have used Hot Sauce for years. I have Shimano reels that has hot Sauce in them for years. Until it hits CNN as a top story, and my reels start sounding like a 49 Dodge Truck I will continue using it.

If Shimano or any other company has proof that Hot Sauce is harmful. Put it out for the public to see. Until then Have a Nice Day.

D.R.

[Bantam1]

We have seen damage occur in our spinning reels from the "Hot Sauce" This is not an approved lubricant for our products and it will void your warranty.

We repair roughly 35,000 reels per year. You name it we have seen it. I have seen countless reels suffer gear damage from long term use of this lubricant. Afterall it does say Brand X on the package and not Shimano. We only approve our lubricants for our reels. If the reel is out of warranty then go ahead and use it. If and when you have a problem we can repair the reel for you.

You guys can have your opinions and say I am full of it if you like. Our official response is that it does harm our reels and we do not authorize this lubricant in our reels.

[Want]

You guys can have your opinions and say I am full of it if you like. Our official response is that it does harm our reels and we do not authorize this lubricant in our reels.

Bantam: Thanks for the feedback. It's not that you are not believed, it is that I, at least, did not know this information. Like others on this board, I have a significant investment in Shimano reels (at least my pocketbook and wife think so) and I do see these reels as long term purchases. So using a product that the Manufacturer says causes damage to them is pretty important information.

[ChuckE]

The peculiarities of servicing some Shimano spinning reels has been discussed in a previous post. Input from a member who spoke with a Shimano American Corp. Service rep. identified that when you remove the cover from the service plate, the potential for gear problems has already occurred. Here is the link, the first part of the post provides the details:
T3Forum/viewtopic.php?t=14887&highlight=shimano

I find it interesting that Shimano tells you how to remove the cover in the instructions for the Stella reels, "in case you want to service the reel yourself". I also find it interesting that there is no mention that when doing so, you run the risk for problems, and be sure to only use Shimano lubricants if you want to keep your warranty. Apparently this specific information is closely held by Shimano, and not for public use? I couldn't find any information in the documentation that came with my reels, on what lubricant to use.

I looked at the warranty cards that came with my 4 Stellas, and I guess that lubing a reel with anything other than Shimano approved lubricants is to be considered "...an unauthorized alteration, abuse or damage by your failure to provide necessary and reasonable care." I also noted that the warranty card goes on to state that "Some states/provinces do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts nor do they allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damage: therefore, the above stipulated limitations and/or exclusion may not apply to you."

Standing back, it sure sounds like that there already is a known problem in servicing these spinning reels to me... irregardless of what lube is used.

Chuck

[Bantam1]

We are working on changing the manuals but that is another story in itself. I have been trying to get this done for a while. This is why we offer our online maintenance guides to provide more information than the manual provides.

The Stella reels are like fine watches and I strongly suggest leaving these to the experts. If you are confident with spinning reels then by all means tackle it. We offer a 48 hour turn around time for service on the Stella reels for a reason If you spend that much money on a reel then you deserve to have it back in a timely manner.

Our spinning reels have very tight tollerances. The gear set develops a wear pattern that can be easily disturbed. Once this pattern is changed then the reel will not feel the same as it once was. I hope that the new Paladin gearing has resolved this issue. Durability has been improved with the gearing but we have not serviced any at this time.

Lubrication and warranty can be a fine line at times. Even with auto manufacturers. They might require the use of 5w-20 oil for example. Will they void the warranty if you use 10W-30 and the camshaft bearing fails? Tough decision there. I can say that our lubricants are designed for our reels. Millions of dollars have been spent testing our lubricants to devleop the correct lubricants for our products. We require the use of our lubricants in our reels.

Now we have found that other lubricants do work and provide good protection. Some of these lubricants are too thick to allow the reel to feel as smooth as it should. Some have a small amount of a polishing or lapping compound and others do not. If you polish .001" off of the teeth on our gear set you will notice it. Others might have had good luck so far with other brands and choose to stay with that brand. We only suggest our lubricants. In the past 2 years we introduced a new lubricant specifically for our spinning reels. It is called Permalube. It provides excellent performance in all temperatures and will not freeze in our climates.

[Want]

Okay Bantam, I have a Stella, Symetre, and Sahara that I have not used any Hot Sauce on and I guess I won't.

But what about Baitcasters and Hot Sauce? Same thing in terms of wear? You do not mention them specifically in terms of premature gear wear being caused by Hot Sauce. That would be nice to know as I own more of them than I do spinning reels. Thanks, WT2

[Bantam1]

The spinning reels seem to be mostly affected by it. I still recommend our lubricants no matter what. The standard drag grease is fine for the bait cast reels.

[Texas_bullet]

Bantam...thanks so much for driving a stake in the ground on this topic. I own one each 4000 Sahara and Sonora (with the dreaded rear drag), and a Quantum PTi 40 and PTi 20a. The Quantums came heavily lubed with Hot Sauce Grease and Oil, so I guess their gear design is different (not to say better). My Shimanos have given yeoman service in fresh and salt. I can't say much about the PTi 20a because I dropped it on the deck and the rotor body shattered (carbon fiber), and I have been waiting a month for the Quantum repair center to finish the job.

I have only used Hot Sauce grease on my old Abu Garcia C3's gears. I have been using SuperLube on every thing else. What stores carry the new Shimano PermaLube? Is it a different product than the JDM Reel Grease Spray (SP-023A)?
Thanks, TB