New Worm Gear Material

[brownhl]

Just curious as to how baitcasters now have the new worm gear material in them?

[mark poulson]

Just curious as to how baitcasters now have the new worm gear material in them?

What material are you talking about?

[brownhl]

The composition material Shimano is making worn gears out of....not metal.

[mark poulson]

The composition material Shimano is making worn gears out of....not metal.

Thanks.

[hoohoorjoo]

It is a thermoplastic. Its been discussed at length here in the past. The Chronarch and Chronarch MGL are the only 2 reels that I'm sure had that worm gear. Not sure about other current offerings, though.

[mark poulson]

It is a thermoplastic. Its been discussed at length here in the past. The Chronarch and Chronarch MGL are the only 2 reels that I'm sure had that worm gear. Not sure about other current offerings, though.

Is less weight the reason to use the plastic, or is there some performance benefit?

[hoohoorjoo]

It is a thermoplastic. Its been discussed at length here in the past. The Chronarch and Chronarch MGL are the only 2 reels that I'm sure had that worm gear. Not sure about other current offerings, though.

Is less weight the reason to use the plastic, or is there some performance benefit?

I suspect it was a $ decision in the end, purely a cost saving measure. It was touted as being saltwater-resistant and a weight saving measure, iirc.

[mark poulson]

It is a thermoplastic. Its been discussed at length here in the past. The Chronarch and Chronarch MGL are the only 2 reels that I'm sure had that worm gear. Not sure about other current offerings, though.

Is less weight the reason to use the plastic, or is there some performance benefit?

I suspect it was a $ decision in the end, purely a cost saving measure. It was touted as being saltwater-resistant and a weight saving measure, iirc.

That makes sense. Thanks.

[Slazmo]

Pure PA / POM or other machine plastic isn't it...

Can't be a fibre reinforced PA like PA30-GF as it would EAT away at the pawl - would be continually scratchy.

It's also in the Curado 70i, Curado 200K, Curado 150 DC, Tranx 200, a lot of the cheapies and a few others from memory.

Also someone made mention its in the Tranx 400 sizes, just we don't see many used here...

Not a fan of it myself. But hey that's "progress" they say. Can't wait to see it in the SW Stella's...

[MardukFIN]

Its's incredible how people is afraid to say the true composition of the material. I saw composite, polymer, fiber alloy (here on Brazil).

It's just plastic, to reduce costs and increase profit. I fish under 33-38C temperatures, I would never trust a plastic worm gear even more so, with a metallic pawl. These polymers have a higher dilation coefficient. Sometimes I get burned by the reels. The weight reduction gain is negligible.

It's funny how different conditions we have here in Earth. You have problem with heat. We here in Finland think is carbon grips too cold for fishing. Finnish "summer" is rarely over +30C. Last SUMMER wasnt at all. Mostly +13-25'C. Now it's spring starting finally, 6,4'C outside. I have some snow left on the yard. I were ice fishing last week.

[Bantam1]

It is a polymer based material with some reinforcing properties. They are fine and we see virtually zero issues. The only damage we have seen is from stuff like sand which wrecks aluminum, brass and other materials as well.

There are many reasons we went to it. One is consistency. There are variations with machined worm shafts. This means they must be adjusted at the factory for proper line lay on the spool. There is only so much you can do adjusting them. We have seen some being slightly off causing the line to stack to one side of the spool. This causes balance issues when casting. With the molded shaft they are all the same.

The other was durability in saltwater markets. Plastic/Nylon/POM simply does not corrode.

The QC team did a lot of testing. I will not give you the number of cycles, but it lasted longer than the other materials we used. Shockingly higher numbers.

The Tranx 400 started with an aluminum worm shaft that was anodized black. We changed back to chrome plated brass for the saltwater markets to eliminate corrosion issues. I wanted them to go with plastic personally. That is based on what I have seen with Curado K and 70 models having no problems.

I went over this a while back and the naysayers continue to say we only did it for the money. I can assure you that isn't the case. Nobody wants to factor in the cost of molds, development or testing involved. That all costs money. The discussions about the change started in 2014 and I was involved in those meetings with the engineers. I brought up many scenarios and cautions based on my years here. They shared the data with me and the reels went through extensive testing.

We see no issues in the temperatures the reels are used in. The material we used is safe across broad temperatures outside of temps way too hot for humans to endure, and reels left inside hot cars with temperatures exceeding 170 degrees. If temps were an issue you would see problems with side plates and other parts failing. Funny how nobody sees issues there but a worm shaft is the end of the world Polymers are the future in case nobody has noticed. There are more and more things being made with polymers. If a pistol of rifle can hold up to the pressures and forces of recoil, and handle huge temperature swings, I'm sure our little worm shaft will do just fine.

[mark poulson]

Thanks for the in depth response Bamtam1

[Bantam1]

Sand will erode any wormshaft. Normal people just stops fishing when sand gets in the shaft housing. Concerning the machined metal gears, can't you get industry level consistency using cnc machined ones? I really doubt that change needed needed new mold or machining tools.

The firearms industry does the same thing, changes metal for polymer whenever possible, but for a true desire of weight cutting. And always moving polymer against polymer. There is a tolerance reduction when the change happens and it is clearly stated for the users.

Don't blame the '''''naysayers''''. Shimano's recent philosophy of reducing costs through use of cheaper materials is pretty clear. More plastics, downgranding from worm drives for cheaper locomotive oscillation systems. The product most representative of this situation is the Socorro spinning reel.

Why exactly a sideplate should fail over higher temperatures, when metal ones have a dilation coeficient lesser than plastic ones? Wich is the dilation coeficient for your ''ultra resistent'' polymer? How it fares against brass and duraluminium ones?

I really have a problem over the ''extensive test thing''. These are the same ''extensive'' tests made for the old Metananium MGL and it's unrealiable duraluminium gearing? The same team developing and testing your duraluminium alloy, weaker than those ones used by your main competitors? Or should these situations be blamed on the naysayers too?

I come from a surfcasting backgroung, used shimano stuff extensively, BX roda, Ultrega longcasters, sustains for jetty... But I'm really disappointed over your products quality in these past 5 years.

I actually had typed up responses to everything you posted. I spent about 30 minutes typing my rebuttal. Then I decided it's not worth it. There are more pressing things going on in my office and in the world. Arguing with someone on the internet over Shimano's decision to use a certain material for a certain application in a few reel models is not what I need to deal with today, especially when this conversation has taken place before with different players making the same arguments.

Clearly you are an expert in all things fishing reels and components. You are business genius determining we make changes solely based on cost. I commend you for figuring out our secret plan to rob the customers of their hard earned money while laughing all the way to the bank. They are probably swimming in pools filled with money and lighting currency on fire to ignite their cigarettes.

This same discussion has occurred in the past. Some are upset with us using "plastic" parts such as the worm shaft. Sorry we are not going to change it when it has proven to work and work well. Maybe future models will be different. That decision is not mine to make. I trust the engineers and QC engineers to determine what is best. I have seen failures and changes take place in the past. So far the not metal worm shaft has not been a failure.

If you feel that strongly about our materials and choices, maybe you can seek out someone else that uses the materials you deem to be sufficient for your needs. You seem to have a decent grasp on materials, albeit not 100% correct because you really do not know exactly what we use. Maybe invest in your own company and develop the products that you want to see. Build them the way you want them built. Then you can be in control over everything, sell thousands of reels and be a millionaire. Or you can fail and be broke. Thankfully you have the choice in a free market society to spend your money how you see fit.

Your mind has been made up on this and nothing I say will change that. So congrats you won the internet today because I am done with this conversation.

[mark poulson]

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

--

I actually had typed up responses to everything you posted. I spent about 30 minutes typing my rebuttal. Then I decided it's not worth it. There are more pressing things going on in my office and in the world. Arguing with someone on the internet over Shimano's decision to use a certain material for a certain application in a few reel models is not what I need to deal with today, especially when this conversation has taken place before with different players making the same arguments.

Clearly you are an expert in all things fishing reels and components. You are business genius determining we make changes solely based on cost. I commend you for figuring out our secret plan to rob the customers of their hard earned money while laughing all the way to the bank. They are probably swimming in pools filled with money and lighting currency on fire to ignite their cigarettes.

This same discussion has occurred in the past. Some are upset with us using "plastic" parts such as the worm shaft. Sorry we are not going to change it when it has proven to work and work well. Maybe future models will be different. That decision is not mine to make. I trust the engineers and QC engineers to determine what is best. I have seen failures and changes take place in the past. So far the not metal worm shaft has not been a failure.

If you feel that strongly about our materials and choices, maybe you can seek out someone else that uses the materials you deem to be sufficient for your needs. You seem to have a decent grasp on materials, albeit not 100% correct because you really do not know exactly what we use. Maybe invest in your own company and develop the products that you want to see. Build them the way you want them built. Then you can be in control over everything, sell thousands of reels and be a millionaire. Or you can fail and be broke. Thankfully you have the choice in a free market society to spend your money how you see fit.

Your mind has been made up on this and nothing I say will change that. So congrats you won the internet today because I am done with this conversation.

YES this is the response that is needed more often towards self proclaimed know it alls THANK YOU