No more Lifetime Warranty- Shimano Rods

[CaptBob]

There are many companies that excel with a certain product and rely on fan base to drive their other products. Shimano will always make my Spinning reels as long as they keep building the best spinning reels made, but 15 years ago I bought my last G. Loomis, St. Croix will and have built the best rods I can find for the last 20 years, and that is where my rod's will come from. I never bit on the cheap China, Japan, Korean or whatever imports as fine rods of the day,,,,I will also benefit from the best Customer Service in the industry furnished by those that have done it for the longest with St. Croix!

[Hulkster]

if you haven't bought a loomis for 15 years because of the buyout, you are missing out on some amazing rods

eg. the TSR rods, new IMX's, Escape travel rods etc.

Loomis has always been Loomis. and still made in the USA.

the only thing that shimano did since the buyout (back in 1997) was make the rod blanks unavailable to builders.

that sucked.

but in terms of product, they seem to be as good as they always were if not better (ie the GLX's from that era were too brittle etc)

although granted, the NRX fiasco was a joke. really bad.

but strangely, it doesn't seem to have spread to any of their other rod series.

[John Puckett]

I'll have to agree that the whole NRX "issue" should've never happened especially on a rod at it's price they seem to have gotten past that now. I haven't heard anyone complaining about this anymore on a newer NRX rod. Loomis still makes some of the best sticks available, I'm actually genuinely shocked at the number of people that have so much false information about Loomis rods these days. I mean it's so easy to find the truth for yourself.

[Hulkster]

yes, and its worth noting that even with all the misinformation and bad press loomis has got (and their own bad issues like the NRX bullshit) they are still leading the 'favorite rod company' poll at the top of the page.

speaks volumes right there.

[John Puckett]

Agreed

[CaptBob]

If you think I am not aware of the rods Loomis is putting out you are far from correct, as a Charter owner and a Licensed guide with over 400 charters in my marina alone, we gladly share everything amongst us, from hot spots to gear! I don't have to buy it to fish it, I would also venture to believe I have fished far more models and makes than 90% of the people posting here. I also don't need a he said, I heard, they told me, mentality to make an educated evaluation as many do. Loomis was still making rods 10 or maybe even 8 years ago under Gary, way before Shimano stepped in. I realized far before that, they weren't offering the product I was getting from St. Croix. I have never made a purchase because of comment's by others. The NRX would never be a rod in my locker, I agree it is better than 99% of the rods out there, but I hate the half built handle and reel seat, I won't own one and the NRX is not worth the money to begin with, let alone to have the handle made whole, and in my opinion the Legend Extreme is a better lighter stronger blank with all the sensitivity offered in the NRX.Most don't realize the big difference in sensitivity is because of the Rec guides, which is why I bought the 2 Legend Extreme models I did, the full reel seat, and rec guides were why I didn't build the whole rod, an option I still have with St. Croix, and feel these are more sensitive than the comparable 6'8" MXF NRX, the 7'2" has no equal as NRX doesn't even offer a compatible action and power! which I have done with 2 Legend Extreme's that I felt were worth th cost, a 7'2"MHM, and 6'10" MXF both casting models. But with the NRX the blank itself I would pass on over the Legend Elite, or Legend Extreme, which are better in my opinion, I would never own a half built rod and hate the Eve and split grips. This is personal and why they make more than one model, but trust me I am probably better informed since I have used most where others are making comments without trying most of what they are refering to!

I am getting ready to build a light fast for some Walleye, Perch, Crappie, small Trout and the likes, for my purpose I will probably build it on an Avid blank. I have after 60 years learned the difference in tapers materials and components and there is not one of those that is perfect for everything. The Avid will be slightly slower throughout the entire blank, and of those (which no loomis blank anymore is!) I have decided on it. The MLF I just built, with it I needed a little faster taper and hence why I went with a LE blank.

Like others have mentioned fiasco's such as the NRX are something old men avoid, I also avoid polls and opinions based on others, most don't think about anything but how sensitive a blank is, in all honesty if you can't detect bottom structure and material or a bait stealing Perch or Walleye with a St Croix Premier blank, maybe you should leave the smoke booze or whatever at the dock, most rods Legends Avids, and a few other premium blanks are plenty sensitive enough. I can and am really not interested in feeling them fart, I am interested in all aspects of the blank something to many know nothing about, the taper, the speed (throughout the whole blank) and not just under a load but with casting weight. The St. Croix is hard to beat as a total package, strength, sensitivity, tapers, weight, and balance, least wise for the fishing I do, anything from Salmon and Musky to perch and trout. Oh by the way the 6'6" Avid blank @1.1oz is as light a blank as their is available, with great sensitivity for the type fishing I will be doing, and a better taper with the right amount of action (speed) I am wanting, the Legend Elite and Legend Extreme are faster than I want on this rod. I have been disappointment in rod purchases before, but never with a St. Croix, I always got what I expected and more times than not even more than I could have dreamed of.

[falcon]

Well said capt!

[John Puckett]

In the end though this is still only one man's opinion and just because you believe it to be "correct" or "the way it is" certainly doesn't make it so, it's only right for you. Just as my opinion is only right for me.

I have no doubt St Croix makes a very good rod but having only ever played around with them in the shop and never actually fished one I can't say for certain. What I can say is that they never impressed me enough in person to sway me away from a Loomis purchase.

As I so pointed out to you though, that's only my opinion regarding which is better just based on what very little can be told about a rod in a tackle shop. There are no certainties in fishing, as I suppose is the case with everything else in life.

[spookybaits]

Since the conversation turned to likes/dislikes & opinions...

I haven't been even remotely interested in a Shimano rod since the Cumulus.
Almost pulled the trigger a few times on an NRX but... i refuse to settle for recoil guides at that price point(and split grips, but mostly the recoils).
Ordered GLX dealer rep rods twice, and both times the rods were banged up and looked like sh*t.

Same with St croix, the 2005 legend elite(the brown le) was the last st croix rod I wanted(and man do i wish I would've stocked up on them when i had the chance- one of the most beautiful rods ever imo + built just the way I like).
I'd be all over the new LE's if it weren't for those awful ACS reel seats. Great looking, full cork grip + ti/sic guides. They got the formula almost perfect like the old ones, except they changed to damn ACS seats.
Not gonna talk about the extremes...

[CaptBob]

Since the conversation turned to likes/dislikes & opinions...

I haven't been even remotely interested in a Shimano rod since the Cumulus.
Almost pulled the trigger a few times on an NRX but... i refuse to settle for recoil guides at that price point(and split grips, but mostly the recoils).
Ordered GLX dealer rep rods twice, and both times the rods were banged up and looked like sh*t.

Same with St croix, the 2005 legend elite(the brown le) was the last st croix rod I wanted(and man do i wish I would've stocked up on them when i had the chance- one of the most beautiful rods ever imo + built just the way I like).
I'd be all over the new LE's if it weren't for those awful ACS reel seats. Great looking, full cork grip + ti/sic guides. They got the formula almost perfect like the old ones, except they changed to damn ACS seats.
Not gonna talk about the extremes...

The rec recoil guides are the best guides out there, unless you want eye appeal, the NRX can thank it's sensitivity to the rec guides, it would be less sensitive and heavier without them, and recoil guides are the most expensive guides made "for good reason". The sad thing is, you can't have it your way with Loomis or any Shimano rod, in my opinion they are not my cup of tea but they are unavailable for builders. So you hate the best component on the NRX???? Oh well that's why they make other rod's. You may be better off not liking the loomis anyways, cause the way Shimano operates it could be "JUST KID'N WE CHANGED OUR MIND" and no more loomis lifetime, they did it before!

As for the Legend Elites and loving everything but the reel seat, St Croix makes every blank they make available to builders and cover them by a lifetime warranty, nobody has done it longer or better CS is world class!! So build it the way they do and go with reel seat of your choice, if you don't want the best and most expensive guides, Rec Recoils, then use the cheaper guides they do or whatever cheaper guide you like and have a heavier less sensitive rod!! Yes the last three rods I bought have recoil guides and the last one was custom built, I have the lightest most sensitive and most durable guides you can get, the price will give you sticker shock but no other guide is as light, as sensitive, or will take the abuse the recoils do, you get what you pay for, trust me,,,, been there,,,done that! When I build a rod eye appeal is the last thing I worry about, light weight, proper taper, sensitivity, balance, and a comfortable seat and handle that isn't exaggerated in length to balance the outfit. After buying the last model legend extreme made with the full one piece reel seat, and the recoil guides, the sensitivity gained from these guides showed me how great they are! Before I bough those two rods and changed the handles, I believed all the bull I read about recoil guides, thank God I used them and realized what I had been missing!! this is what I had built after trying them, and had the reel seat I wanted and am still astounded how sweet this rod is every time use it! You could do the same thing! HAVE IT YOUR WAY!!!

[spookybaits]

The rec recoil guides are the best guides out there, unless you want eye appeal, the NRX can thank it's sensitivity to the rec guides, it would be less sensitive and heavier without them, and recoil guides are the most expensive guides made "for good reason". The sad thing is, you can't have it your way with Loomis or any Shimano rod, in my opinion they are not my cup of tea but they are unavailable for builders. So you hate the best component on the NRX???? Oh well that's why they make other rod's.

I don't know who told you recoil guides are the most expensive guides out there but they lied to you captain Bob.
Check the price on some double footed fuji titanium sic guides and get back to me. Or better yet, torzite.
Loomis didn't use half recoils on the nrx because they're the best, they used them to save money(bantam1 himself said- "if we had used all ti/sic the rod would've cost a lot more").
Yes, I've used them and I hated them, and not because they're cheap. I prefer prefer SIC. Harder, better heat dissipation and line runs faster off it. I also prefer more real estate of a traditional guide against the blank, and recoils are noisy and vibrate more, more snaggy and they just feel flimsy to me. I won't touch on the sensitivity aspect, as I've never compared 2 identical rods built with different guides. But I'll take your word on it.
I haven't used torzite yet but really looking forward to, from the numbers I've seen it's the new 'best'. I'll be getting a torzite equipped rod later this year if all goes as planned.

We'll just agree to disagree on guides, cause no way in hell are you gonna convince me recoils are better. As far as I'm concerned they're nothing more than a springy bent paperclip :D

I think you got the right idea with custom built st Croix, I have a Que of 'rods to get', but I'll definitely look into it down the road. Maybe a custom le will bump on of them...

*great looking custom you got there btw- I really like the 2 tone cork & green + yellow guide wraps. Good stuff =D>

[SteveSchmelzle]

i like your two pictured rods cause they are cork, and not split grip.

spooky, your feeling of the guides feeling like paper clips is the same feeling I have about eva grips...i feel like i'm holding a bike inner tube.

[spookybaits]

spooky, your feeling of the guides feeling like paper clips is the same feeling I have about eva grips...i feel like i'm holding a bike inner tube.

Ha! Right on man, fish what you like. I'll fish cork or Eva, I like either as long as it's full grip. Really like slim handles. Haven't tried slim cork yet but I'm sure I'd love it.
I didn't like the handle on the st Croix extreme. The shape, while funny looking, felt ok in hand, but the material.... I kept wanting to dig my fingernails in it.
I'm just glad we have options these days, ya know. I really that companies are exploring different options other than cork.

[CaptBob]

You both are right about the choices, I have no doubt there will never be a rod, a material, a length whatever that everyone likes, or everyone is willing to use. The thing about having the luxury of choice is, like I said far to many are not willing to let us have it "our way" in most cases the y all offer fine rod's, but what I like about St. Croix is they have led the industry for far to many years offering warranties, service plans above and beyond anything any other rod company will attempt, and choices far exceeding the choices from other companies in not only rods for every thing that swims, but every way to fish for it,and blanks to build that rod the way you want it if your not happy with components or whatever the way they build it, and have the same warranty every other rod they build has on it.

I won't go into how useless anything harder is on a MLF or MXF action finesse rod's, I will say for Salmon Muskie and most saltwater species I would go with a Ti Sic Guide system, the larger surface area to the rod being the main reason, but heat dispersion could be an advantage in these circumstances like was mentioned. But on these rods, I use the recoil guides on, with 10 to 20 lbs. braid, there will never be a benefit using heavier and less durable, stiffer, less sensative guides that add more weight to offset all the other benefits in my opinion, and yes all these rods do have a Ti Sic tip top, because it is the only place I feel there may be a friction or heat benefit. On a reaction bait rod, or any application absolute feel was not a concerns, I would probably use a different guide, and as I have a few rods with them it would probably be the Titanium framed Sic from Fuji, as there is no practical difference in price, and they do a few things that were mentioned better and the things they don't wouldn't be much of an issue on these rod's. But this is just my opinion and why it is nice to have choices. I would never invest in the torzite as I believe there are more benefits using the recoil or Ti Sic guides than the torzite offers over them, the cost is not worth the loss in weight or durability depending on the application, and usually with hardness and slimmer profiles combined, comes being to brittle and out way any advantages for me! Again just my opinion but to me they look far to susceptible to failure to counter their advantages which are minor to their disadvantages and cost??? JMO