Guides and performance

[BRONZEBACK32]

Whats your thoughts on guides used and guides placed, meaning the amount of guides per rod.

Lets say you have a 7" rod with 10 guides vs a 7" rod with 15 guides (just a example)
Now I might be wrong here but adding to many guides to a rod will cause a rod to become slugish and weight more then
necessary correct?

So what is a normal amount?

[fishingandfords]

The more guides will make balancing the rod that much harder

[nctrucker]

if using today's very small, light weight guides, guide weight becomes close to negligible as far as impacting a rod's performance. micro guides will really keep weight down with a minimum impact on rod performance.
large heavy guides are not used as much in custom rods and that concept is being carried over to mainstream retail offerings as well. this is of course MY opinion, yours may vary and be more accurate.
I am looking at an old Sage spinning rod with large guides on it. thinking of rewrapping it with more, smaller guides. I think it will be lighter and hopefully more responsive(sensitive).

[angry john]

The standard is one per foot of rod plus one. Small guides aka micro will use a few more. The correct amount is one which controls line flow via a static test. One or two more may be called for.

[Mattman]

Now I might be wrong here but adding to many guides to a rod will cause a rod to become slugish and weight more then
necessary correct?

Correct. Too many guides, too large of guides, unnecessary use of double foot guides. All can put more weight onto your blank and negatively impact its response time and ability to transmit vibrations.

So what is a normal amount?

1 guide per foot of rod length, rounded up, plus one more guide is my rule of thumb. 8 guides on a 7' rod. Some blanks need something different than that but those are few and far between for the rods I build.

[BRONZEBACK32]

So what about 6'6" or 6'8" ?

spinning rods and casting rods.

[GRH]

My Loomis 6'6" GLX 783S JWR (spinning rod) has only 6 guides + tip. Does that mean to save money they short changed me on guides OR because the blank is a stiffer MH (for a spinning rod) it doesn't flex enough to need any more guides to keep the line off the blank and running true?

[BRONZEBACK32]

My Loomis 6'6" GLX 783S JWR (spinning rod) has only 6 guides + tip. Does that mean to save money they short changed me on guides OR because the blank is a stiffer MH (for a spinning rod) it doesn't flex enough to need any more guides to keep the line off the blank and running true?

The rod I was looking at is the GLX 783 SJR (classic) 6+tip and was thinking the same thing after
I looked at the GLX 803s JWR 8+tip

That's actually what brought on this thread

[GRH]

Hopefully Mattman will come back and share his wisdom with us.

[Mattman]

So what about 6'6" or 6'8" ?

spinning rods and casting rods.

1 guide per foot of rod length, rounded up, plus one more guide is my rule of thumb. 6'6" and up are rounded up to 7'.

[Mattman]

My Loomis 6'6" GLX 783S JWR (spinning rod) has only 6 guides + tip. Does that mean to save money they short changed me on guides OR because the blank is a stiffer MH (for a spinning rod) it doesn't flex enough to need any more guides to keep the line off the blank and running true?

They did what they felt best, I guess. Its most likely not where I'd wind up. As a matter of fact, I don't recall ever going under my rule of thumb, but I have gone over. It all depends on how the line flows thru the guides.

After I do my guide spacing I mount a reel, run the line, and tie off to a door knob. Then I load the blank up and look at the transition from line to guide ring. I don't want severe angles in how the line enters/exits a guide ring. Severe angles mean you're missing a guide, or need to respace your guides, because that area will be under a lot of stress. You want your guides to protect your blank.

[BRONZEBACK32]

What about recoil guides, are there still problems with them?

I have seen pics and read some of the discussions about them.
Are the ones Gloomis uses any different (black coated)

[Mattman]

What about recoil guides, are there still problems with them?

I have seen pics and read some of the discussions about them.
Are the ones Gloomis uses any different (black coated)

Nothing has changed with them. They're still a no ceramic guide and much much softer than Alconite, Zirconia, SiC, etc.

[Hogsticker2]

When Vinnie builds my sticks he generally does 8 plus the tip top. None of my sticks are over 7' though. I really like the layout he sold me on. I think it's one double foot 5.5, onto seven 4.5's and the tip. I have no idea if this is best, but I like the performance better than any shelf stick I've used which usually has a handful of different size, larger guides. Plus it looks uniform

[Angler JO]

To add a little to what Mattman said. Static loading does not require a ruler. Manufacturers always have a "layout" but custom builders will let the blank do the talking and place guides where they "need" to be to support the natural bend of the blank. On conventionally built rods (size 6 runners and up) the guides are usually positioned to hold line off the blank when it is bent roughly 90-degrees tip to butt. With micros the line is so close to the blank that having the line "rub" along the top seems to be acceptable as long as it does not drop BELOW the blank under load. The idea is to hit the balance between support and weight since every bit of added weight makes the blank "softer". A softer blank does not recover from a bend as quickly as a stiffer (and usually lighter) blank and tends to oscillate a few times in the tip at the release of a cast. This oscillation adds "waves" to the line flow and many agree that it can rob a little distance on a cast and may even effect accuracy. A "zero-weight" guide train would allow you to make a cast and feel EXACTLY what the blank designer had in mind when he created the blank. The lighter the guide train the closer you get.