Who is the MOST over rated ?

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ShimanoFan
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:53 am

Hogsticker2 wrote: Is that the only important aspect of a reel - casting distance?


No. But keep in mind I work on reels. I see the insides of them more than I want to. So one day on the bench I might have a $150 curado on the bench and the next reel is a top of the line $500 or $600 reel.

Both are disassembled completely and each is put into a bin and on the way to the sonic cleaner.

When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

Hogsticker2 wrote: I consider all parts being equal, including the line. I'm amazed when people drop 400 bucks on a rod, but refuse to pay more than 8 dollars on a spool of line.
And likewise I never understood it when some people will spend $500 on a reel and then slap it on some broomstick or baseball bat type of cheap chinese made junk rod like a Dobyns Fury entry level rod that should be sold at Walmart for $39.99. Oh, and let's not forget this same type will take a hundred photos, start an entire thread to show off his $500 reel on a walmart rod.

Makes no sense to me either!

But, one thing I should have mentioned that makes me focus more on the rods for quality is because I build custom rods mostly for myself. So the reels are the only dip in my "quality" chain.

After 35 years of working on reels, I found I could slack off a little there and tune them up to where I want them, but for rods, there is no cutting corners.
Hogsticker2 wrote:
At the end of the day, we buy whatever enhances our personal experience on the water.

I'm just rambling at this point, but I'm glad we have numerous options we do.
Exactly! So each of us can dial in our equipment tailored to our liking so each of us can enhance our enjoyment of our passion for fishing.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:25 am

When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by Hogsticker2 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:31 am

LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:32 am

Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
I didnt say those words, if was ShimanoFan. However, what he was getting at was a like for like deal. As in, since you want to talk about lews, a $100 Lews vs a $300 Lews have pretty much the same internals. Same thing with Daiwa, the Tatula CT and the Zillion SV TW for instance. Much the same could be said about Shimano reels as well. Thats what his point was, and though I dont agree with him all that much, he makes a very valid point.
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by DirtyD64 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:46 am

A way to justify that thought on Shimano is the fact that many consider it an upgrade to add Curado K gears (sub $200 reel) to a Metanium MGL (over $400 reel). So there is some truth to that there. You just have to look at specifications and read where the differences are and if that is worth it to you as an angler.

Tatula CT $130
Tatula SV $200 (add drag star and light spool)
Zillion SV TW $300 (add dual bearing pinion support, even lighter spool, different knobs, spool interchangeability)

Just a matter of if those changes justify the price. I easily could have gotten away with a Curado K for my first Shimano, but I liked the lighter weight of the Chronarch MGL and the MGL spool. Even though I haven't finished college yet and work pretty hard for around 20k a year those small things ARE worth it to me, I enjoy looking for a deal though and don't regret my reel purchases. I will eventually replace my current rods though, I am unfortunately guilty of putting nicer reels on average rods. Was more of just what I wanted at the time, didn't know what was considered best at the time and made some questionable rod purchases. That being said though, does the same rule not apply for rods? What does a $300 rod offer that a $150 doesn't??? Or a $500 rod that a $300 doesn't???

The Lew's Custom Speed Sticks and Villain 2.0's that make most of my collection do work well, I can always feel a bite and they cast fine while being fairly lightweight...

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by poisonokie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:12 pm

Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by SPAZ » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:31 pm

Really surprised to hear negative comments on the Compile-X rods. I used the 7'1 for quite some time and felt it was very sensitive. Also had the Werewolf 6'6 compile-x rods which was one of the most sensitive sticks I've ever had. I still have my 6'8 compile-x spinning rod that I have no issue feeling any bites when I use it for wacky rigging.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by Hogsticker2 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:19 pm

poisonokie wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
Cans :big grin: Now you're talking my language

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:21 pm

Hogsticker2 wrote:
poisonokie wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
Cans :big grin: Now you're talking my language
If they are "tall boys" full of beer....im in! :lol:
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by Hogsticker2 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:24 pm

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
poisonokie wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:When you look into the 2 bins and pull out parts and lay them side by side, it becomes very clear the reels are darn near identical. Same frame type, same gear type, same this, and same that. With the only real difference maybe in bearing count and tolerance quality.

And when these 2 reels are put back together, I don't get a $350 difference in specs or handling in my hands. I can make a curado every bit as operable as top of the line. I can beef up drag if I want to. I can add extra bearings if I want to. Swap spools. Swap gears. Drill spool if important. I can do things to a midline reel that give me every bit of the performance I would expect from a top of the line reel.

So for me as a reel tech, the extra $$$$$$ simply are not justified on reels. That is sales gimmick stuff for over the counter customers who don't work on their reels. They have to buy in to the high end, while reel techs can get it through magic with their hands on midline reels.

-----------------------------------
This couldnt be more true.
I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
Cans :big grin: Now you're talking my language
If they are "tall boys" full of beer....im in! :lol:
Lol. Those are good too.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by DrPerf » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:21 pm

SPAZ wrote:Really surprised to hear negative comments on the Compile-X rods. I used the 7'1 for quite some time and felt it was very sensitive. Also had the Werewolf 6'6 compile-x rods which was one of the most sensitive sticks I've ever had. I still have my 6'8 compile-x spinning rod that I have no issue feeling any bites when I use it for wacky rigging.
Same here. The Compile-X 6'8" spinning rod was my first "high-end" rod purchase, followed by three Compile-X casting rods (two 7'1" and one 8'). All four of those rods remain in my current rotation, which includes NRX, Conquest, Megabass, Evergreen, Gan Craft, and customs.

I have also been using Dobyns Extreme DX rods since 2009 and never have had any issue with the guides or anything else and the cork looks great. I have sold a few and everyone who bought them remarked on how good the rods looked including the cork. My DX 784C ML is a 'include always' rod for tournaments, so it will definitely remain in my inventory.

Doc

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by poisonokie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:11 pm

Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
poisonokie wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote: I know some reel techs myself who may disagree. Are you saying the internals of a 150 dollar Lews are equivalent to, or as good as a Shimano Antares? How about longevity? Are they all built for the long haul? You mentioned tolerances. That seems kind of important, no? Which spool additions are you adding to that Curado that alter its performance characteristics? Again, we almost always run into that point of diminishing returns, but that's more so determined by the end user. I have headphones that cost 300 dollars. I have headphones that cost 700 dollars. Is the sound 400 dollars better? Probably not, but people wouldn't buy them if there weren't noticeable improvements. Once again, that's only determined by the individual consumer. It's worth it to me, because I can hear details and nuances in my music I didn't even know existed, yet both headphones are essentially made with similar components. It's more about tuning. Same can be said about reels - somewhat. I guarantee whichever Curado you're using can perform to the same level as my Steez SV TW with Zpi Nrc001-m spool in terms of versatility. Again, is that added depth worth the expense? That's for each individual to decide. Personally, I don't believe your blanket statement of exact or close enough holds too much weight on the whole, especially with this particular forum community. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
Cans :big grin: Now you're talking my language
If they are "tall boys" full of beer....im in! :lol:
Lol. Those are good too.
Those can make your music sound better too.
This is the way.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by hoohoorjoo » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:38 pm

poisonokie wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:
poisonokie wrote:
In my experience you get what you pay for. I think Zillions are markedly better than Tatulas. Zillion SV's are the bees knees. I think the Zillion rods are a marked improvement over the Tatulas, especially given the warranty. Those MS-X's I've been on about are definitely better than the Zillions, even without a warranty. I've also got some $300 cans and they sound awesome. Much better than those that run $150...
Cans :big grin: Now you're talking my language
If they are "tall boys" full of beer....im in! :lol:
Lol. Those are good too.
Those can make your music sound better too.
Some would argue that those cans make everything better.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by HobeyBaker » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:08 pm

To me it all comes down to certain models in each lineup. Some models are turds and some are gold. I had a St Croix Legend Xtreme 6'10 MXF. The blank was way too fast and I hated it. I have a 7' MHF Legend Elite and love the rod. I look through the threads on here and see which ones everyone loves, and then I see if I have a gap in my lineup. I have NRX, GLX, Legend Elite, Steez AGS, and MB Destroyer rods.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by jdbassman32 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:40 pm

I know I will get bashed on here, but the new Megabass Double X rods are just not that impressive to me. I absolutely love my gen 1's and would not get rid of them. The new ones have left me underwhelmed.

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