St. Croix stagnating?

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Tim Kelly
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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Tim Kelly » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:05 pm

Looking forward to seeing what they've done with the spinning rod handles. The casting rods don't look too bad, at least they've put a spacer between the two parts of the reel seat, so it's a solid unit and can't flex like the same design without the insert.

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by edwelch1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:26 pm

Checking the weights makes me question this new model even more. Seeing an increase 0.2-0.3oz across the board versus the previous model leads me to believe that the AGS guides weigh more than the previously used steel framed SiC insert Fuji's on the 2019 Xtremes. I'm not seeing much else that explains the increase in weight, as I doubt that the minimal added texture to the handle is responsible for that.

So, if the AGS guides are heavier than steel framed SiC guides, and also comparing it to the Legend Elite/X series which use titanium torzites that are even lighter, this new rod is going to have even more sprung mass affecting the action of the rod. I guess the big question is whether the added stiffness/sensitivity of the AGS guides is worth the trade-off of a slightly slower action (and therefore potentially less sensitivity) as a result of heavier guides?

I'm definitely interested in how AGS guides stack up, but until a third party (TT hopefully) gets their hands on both a 2019 and a 2020 Xtreme of the same pattern side-by-side and compares them, I'd rather go with an Elite or X and spend the remaining $200 on more tackle.

Granted, I do like the color scheme the best out of the whole Legend Family...

Edit: Actually I see that they added that spacer in the reel seat as mentioned above, which would add some extra un-sprung weight, so I guess AGS guides may still be lighter and the weight was added elsewhere; if that's the case, then I'd like to see the AGS guides paired with a cork handle like the Elite/X. So who really knows, TT get on that comparison!!! \:D/
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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by zalan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:22 pm

edwelch1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:26 pm
leads me to believe that the AGS guides weigh more than the previously used steel framed SiC insert Fuji's on the 2019 Xtremes.
Daiwa specifically advertises the AGS guides by claiming it is significantly lighter than the titanium fujis. While I did not weight them myself, this is something easy to check and I do not think Daiwa lies about it. The handle should be responsible for the weight difference.

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Chode » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:15 pm

zalan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:22 pm
edwelch1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:26 pm
leads me to believe that the AGS guides weigh more than the previously used steel framed SiC insert Fuji's on the 2019 Xtremes.
Daiwa specifically advertises the AGS guides by claiming it is significantly lighter than the titanium fujis. While I did not weight them myself, this is something easy to check and I do not think Daiwa lies about it. The handle should be responsible for the weight difference.
which would make more sense given what bronzefly said in that the rod balances extremely well

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by CheezusCrust » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:08 pm

I extensively fished the legendxtreme 2 days straight and wasnt impressed at all with it's performance.The butt section looks wonky and it felt unbalanced.

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by bronzefly » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:29 pm

Chode wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:15 pm
zalan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:22 pm
edwelch1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:26 pm
leads me to believe that the AGS guides weigh more than the previously used steel framed SiC insert Fuji's on the 2019 Xtremes.
Daiwa specifically advertises the AGS guides by claiming it is significantly lighter than the titanium fujis. While I did not weight them myself, this is something easy to check and I do not think Daiwa lies about it. The handle should be responsible for the weight difference.
which would make more sense given what bronzefly said in that the rod balances extremely well
What I intended to convey was that the 74HF in the new Legend Xtreme balances better with a Steez A for example than a comparable Legend Elite or Legend X. The whole fore grip mechanism on new Legend Xtreme is a significant upgrade in my opinion, and I'm also a big fan of AGS guides. I've only handled these rods, I have not fished with any of them yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to it...

From my conversations with rod engineers at Daiwa, the AGS guides weigh less than a comparable Fuji TiSic guide. I suspect the weight differential between previous Legend Xtreme and the new 2020 Legend Xtreme has more to do with the coating on the handle and the carbon fiber looking fore grip. I don't know for sure, but there "might" be a little additional butt weight which may account in part for the overall better balance when compared with the same rod from the previous generation.
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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Chode » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:42 pm

maybe they could've saved some weight by no longer painting their blanks

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by cndbasshunter » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:23 pm

Damn those rods are heavy...

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by reason162 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:01 pm

cndbasshunter wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:23 pm
Damn those rods are heavy...
6'10ML spinner 4.4oz? That can't be right...

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Chode » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:12 pm

in all fairness, dobyns rods are known to have very good balance across the board but people don't seem to complain about their overall weight, as most of their rods are between 4.5-6oz (i checked the rod weights thread before writing this haha) in their most popular lineups like 703, 704, 743, 744, and 745

i know for a fact i like extremely lightweight rods, but not at the expense of balance, so hopefully these new xtremes are just a well balanced, if not better, than the dobyns

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by cndbasshunter » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:18 pm

In comparison....
7' MH - Extreme Casting 5.5 oz
7' MH Conquest 843 3.6 oz
7' MH GLX 843 4.5 oz

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewgloomis ... 3Crod.html

:oops:

Image

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Chode » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:01 pm

cndbasshunter wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:18 pm
In comparison....
7' MH - Extreme Casting 5.5 oz
7' MH Conquest 843 3.6 oz
7' MH GLX 843 4.5 oz

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewgloomis ... 3Crod.html

:oops:

Image
i def feel ya. for that price they better bring it.

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by bronzefly » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 am

cndbasshunter wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:18 pm
In comparison....
7' MH - Extreme Casting 5.5 oz
7' MH Conquest 843 3.6 oz
7' MH GLX 843 4.5 oz

:oops:
I've never cared much about the overall weight of a rod. Balance, feel, fishability, and performance are far more important to me. The 7'MH 2020 Xtreme balances beautifully, feels good in hand, and I suspect, fishes great. The Steez AGS Bottom Contact rod for example weighs more than NRX 894, but in my hands it is significantly more comfortable to fish all day because it balances so much better.

The handle material of the Legend Xtreme rods is much more dense and heavy than the cork used in other comparable high end rods. This definitely adds overall weight, but it also makes for a much more balanced rod. To each their own, fortunately there are a lot of great high end rods out there these days. Before I pass judgement, I really like to spend time on the water with new tackle.
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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by Chode » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:23 am

bronzefly wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 am
cndbasshunter wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:18 pm
In comparison....
7' MH - Extreme Casting 5.5 oz
7' MH Conquest 843 3.6 oz
7' MH GLX 843 4.5 oz

:oops:
Before I pass judgement, I really like to spend time on the water with new tackle.
any idea when that will happen? i think it's safe to say that a lot of people here trust your judgment and opinion :big grin:

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Re: St. Croix stagnating?

Post by bronzefly » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:56 am

Chode wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:23 am
bronzefly wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:28 am
Before I pass judgement, I really like to spend time on the water with new tackle.
any idea when that will happen? i think it's safe to say that a lot of people here trust your judgment and opinion :big grin:
Thank you, I very much appreciate that. I hope it will be soon on fishing them. Supplies are very, very limited and we can't start selling these until March 6 on the website and in person at the Classic. I have an angle on a couple of them regardless, so once that works out, I'll be on the water with them at my first opportunity.
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