Kistler rods?

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Drakestar
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Drakestar » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:33 am

Cal wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:11 am
My suspicion is, this was in direct correlation to the cost of their blanks going up. If they're being hit with something similar in the ZBone, a move away from NFC could be a way to reel in the escalating costs. I'm sure this is a constant struggle for anyone not wrapping their own blanks in house.
I've certainly given Kistler a bunch of slack for trying to compete as an all-American company in a market that's swamped by Chinese-made blanks and components. They're just trying to break even as prices escalate. That's why I bought my Zbone last year, and even replaced the broken one at 50%/$275 (which is really high compared to other warranty policies). But that Xray blank was 95% of the reason I bought the rod (as was the TT review, which seems already obsolete now).

Speaking of American companies, Dobyns feels like a pretty American company to me, using Chinese blanks. If I compare both shops, Kistler had a clear blank advantage because of the NFC (and particularly the Xray) blanks. If they're now moving to a new non-NFC blank, I expect that one to be on the level of an Xtasy blank: rolled somewhere else with high modulus Toray material, creating a very high-end (but not absolute top of the line, NRX/Xray-level) stick.

So, assuming that it is accurate (which isn't a given, of course): I can get an Xtasy for $550 and I get a high-end (but not NRX/Xray!) blank with a great build, good styling and awesome balance when I buy Dobyns. Or I can get a $550 Zbone with the same quality blank but below-average build and bad, tip-heavy balance.

Of course that might not actually be true and the new Zbone blank is awesome. But we don't know, and I'm not sure when somebody will take the plunge to buy a 2021 Zbone and to tell us, so... Kistler, to me, just lost their competitive edge. At least with the TT-super-grumpy-high-end-enthusiast crowd :)

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Cal
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Cal » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:44 am

Drakestar wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:33 am
At least with the TT-super-grumpy-high-end-enthusiast crowd :)
The choices are becoming more and more slim :lol:
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Cal » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:25 am

I reached out to Trey a little while ago and can confirm they have moved away from NFC's blanks - no reason one way or the other given as to why, and I didn't expect one. For what it is worth, here's his official response and a statement that will probably find its way their website once they refresh:

KISTLER has partnered with multiple elite carbon factories across the globe. These well-established carbon experts have exceeded Trey Kistler’s demands for excellence in terms of quality control, consistent actions and power as well as durability.

KISTLER is now providing carbon blanks that we believe are the best in the business, period. For KISTLER and for our customers, it is an evolution into a better technology than ever before.

Trey Kistler’s 28 years of experience has enabled KISTLER to provide our customers with the most advanced designs and engineered carbon blanks that will certainly increase the cast to catch ratio for every level angler.

The proprietary 45 degree angle overlay construction using 100% Japanese carbon by Toray has enhanced the performance of KISTLER Carbon Blanks making them noticeably lighter weight and noticeably more sensitive.

This is an evolution that offers our customers better rod technology, better fishing, and a better warranty – the KISTLER Bend Strong 5 Year Warranty on every rod series. KISTLER has made the choice to make the best rod on the market.
Cal, Managing Editor
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ftl1951
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by ftl1951 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:09 am

That’s interesting, but not surprising news. I was told the big reveal is just days away. I know a lot of folks will be disappointed, but using the latest technology should allow for the possibility of a better rod. After reading how so many people are not satisfied with many parts of Kistler’s operation, components, pricing, etc., it appears many have moved away from his products anyway. If he can pull off making a better product by using what he considers the best materials, then his platform could bring in new customers and bring back previous ones. At the end of the day, it will be how his rods perform that will determine their success.

It is really about performance no matter where rods are produced. Complaints about all brands are everywhere, but if the rods perform, people buy them. G Loomis, Megabass, Dobyns, Evergreen, JDM, USDM, CDM...no matter. Maybe you don’t like the quality control or the “balance” of the NRX, but it is still (no matter how old the tech) one of the best performing and sensitive rods available. Megabass makes their rods in China, but they have design, engineering and fit & finish second to none, and they sell a boatload of rods. So it goes with many manufacturers - If the rods are crap, they don’t sell. One of the most significant factors in people’s choice is their brand loyalty. Loyalty fades pretty quickly if the rods are not made with quality and can do what they are supposed to. It might be a good idea to see just what comes out of this new direction before jumping to conclusions...

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by MeatHead » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:09 pm

Got an email saying limited amounts of the new Helium and Z-bone are in stock. Looks like another $50 increase for the Heliums, now $400. Z-bone still $550.
https://kistlerrods.com/products/helium ... 0ifQ%3D%3D

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Drakestar » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:31 pm

They're running a 25% off sale if you pay $499+ right now, btw. 35% over $649.

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by bwjay » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:15 pm

Lol. Looks like Kistler heard that most people wouldn't buy one of their rods at full price, so they just upped the price so the sale prices are higher too. It would've taken a lot for me to be a guinea pig for one of the new rods at the old price, let alone the new price. Welp, good thing I'm not in need of any new rods right now...

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by RMCatchNrelease » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:41 am

Kistler playing with reels and dropping NFC is so confusing.

All they had to do was update their handles to look from this decade.

As mentioned, NFC blanks were the big draw for me. Now I'm looking at ugly rods with a Chinese blank.

Where does Kistler best the competition?
Zodias $199 / Tatua $189 / Falcon Expert $199
Adrena $350 / Megabass options $299-499
IMX GLX $350-450 / Steez AGS $529 / NRX $550

How about warranty? If I'm going to spend $500 the expeditor program is tough to beat.

Today's fishing market is getting younger and rods that look like Grandpa's hand me downs are not going to sell well to generation Googan. The older folks like me may not need extreme cool factor, but value and aesthetics are still important to me.

I'm lost as to where Trey sees this going.

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by goldrod » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:47 am

RMCatchNrelease wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:41 am
Kistler playing with reels and dropping NFC is so confusing.

All they had to do was update their handles to look from this decade.

As mentioned, NFC blanks were the big draw for me. Now I'm looking at ugly rods with a Chinese blank.

Where does Kistler best the competition?
Zodias $199 / Tatua $189 / Falcon Expert $199
Adrena $350 / Megabass options $299-499
IMX GLX $350-450 / Steez AGS $529 / NRX $550

How about warranty? If I'm going to spend $500 the expeditor program is tough to beat.

Today's fishing market is getting younger and rods that look like Grandpa's hand me downs are not going to sell well to generation Googan. The older folks like me may not need extreme cool factor, but value and aesthetics are still important to me.

I'm lost as to where Trey sees this going.

Don’t forget about the expride. It’s a hot seller from what I read in the forums. But Generation googan 😂 that was priceless
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by bwjay » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:47 am

Maybe this is Trey taking a step back, trying to improve profit margins, intending to hand over production to someone else and spend more time fishing and with family. If sales are lower due to the increased prices that might be fine with him. It is unfortunately a watering down of the brand with the Korean reels and Chinese blanks at this point, but such is life in the 21st century. If you don't go Chinese your prices have to keep going up. In this case they went Chinese and the price still went up.

Hopefully the rods are still good. Will someone please buy a few and let us know? Cal? :)

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Cal
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Cal » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:06 am

bwjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:47 am
Will someone please buy a few and let us know? Cal? :)
New Helium is on the way ;)
Cal, Managing Editor
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bwjay
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by bwjay » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:56 am

Cal wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:06 am
bwjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:47 am
Will someone please buy a few and let us know? Cal? :)
New Helium is on the way ;)
Excellent. Looking forward to reading your thoughts!

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by doomtrprz71 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:57 pm

RMCatchNrelease wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:41 am
Kistler playing with reels and dropping NFC is so confusing.

All they had to do was update their handles to look from this decade.

As mentioned, NFC blanks were the big draw for me. Now I'm looking at ugly rods with a Chinese blank.

Where does Kistler best the competition?
Zodias $199 / Tatua $189 / Falcon Expert $199
Adrena $350 / Megabass options $299-499
IMX GLX $350-450 / Steez AGS $529 / NRX $550

How about warranty? If I'm going to spend $500 the expeditor program is tough to beat.

Today's fishing market is getting younger and rods that look like Grandpa's hand me downs are not going to sell well to generation Googan. The older folks like me may not need extreme cool factor, but value and aesthetics are still important to me.

I'm lost as to where Trey sees this going.
I'm lost as well with where Trey sees this going, if you want to sell to googans, get on AliExpress and buy a bunch of cheap blanks and paint them like graffiti on the side of a railcar and call it GOOG@N and be done with it, 18yr olds are dumb but then again wisdom in your teens would be a lot less fun.

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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by setsail26 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Notice how Kistler mentioned quality control when talking about the new blanks? NFC’s quality control is awful. Yes, the are awesome, especially the X-ray, but every blank is different. On the rod building forums people are getting all sorts of different measurements on the “same” blank. It’s to the point that builders don’t even know which blank they actually received. Also most NFC blanks I have seen are more crooked than I would expect and have multiple defects. In my experience, $40 blanks from China are way more consistent. Also, if I can, and have gotten X-ray blanks for $75, I’m not sure how anyone can justify a Zbone for much more than 300 bucks. I can actually believe Kistler went to China for better quality control, consistency, and reliability.

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Cal
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Re: Kistler rods?

Post by Cal » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:08 pm

bwjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:56 am
Cal wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:06 am
bwjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:47 am
Will someone please buy a few and let us know? Cal? :)
New Helium is on the way ;)
Excellent. Looking forward to reading your thoughts!
So the HE701ML arrived today. It'll be a week or more before I get a chance to get out on the water with it, but the blank feels pretty good to me. The blank's surface has a little texture to it like it's sanded just enough to take the edges off, but not enough to make the blank smooth. Relatively crisp. Feels like it will live up to the Helium brand, but we'll see.
Cal, Managing Editor
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