Orochi XX vs. Expride vs Tatula Elite AGS for river smallies

[aaatkr]

Can anyone help me choose? Primary use will be smaller swift and possibly weedy small rivers(DuPage). I hope to use it for Neds, jigs and tubes etc.

I will use 8 pound mono on it. Will an extra fast taper be better than a fast, and how will each cast baits from 1/8 to 1/2 ounce? I have a Kistler Helium I use now and have an itch to add a little lighter power rod. Thanks for your help.

[nvbroncrider]

What are you using spinning or casting gear? That's the first question I have for you.

[rando]

I would choose between orochi and expride. To the best of my knowledge tatula elite is the same blank as tatula with cork. You pay premium for ags guides and pro endorsment.
I have 610 ml expride and 7 m tatula.
610 expride does not have enough power for 1/2 oz, but has good tip for 8lb line and works good (not ideal) for neds, probably too weak for tubes, and is weak sauce for small keitechs.
7 m tatula is great for all of the above, but is significantly less sensitive and less responsive and has faster action.
I dont have orochii, but most people like them so...
If you want to step up your game from helium ($300?) dont short yourself and just go for 76mml steez. You wont regret it.
Thats the rod I always bring when I fish the dupe.

[Drakestar]

Bottom contact: Orochi XX over Expride any day of the week (to me). Moving bait and slack line bite detection: it's a wash.

I have the Expirde 6'10" ML and 6'10" M and love them for moving baits/slack line (spybaits and jerkbaits), but for throwing the stuff you mention, I'd go to my Orochi XX Shakyhead every time.

[Mothra]

I would choose between orochi and expride. To the best of my knowledge tatula elite is the same blank as tatula with cork. You pay premium for ags guides and pro endorsment.
I have 610 ml expride and 7 m tatula.
610 expride does not have enough power for 1/2 oz, but has good tip for 8lb line and works good (not ideal) for neds, probably too weak for tubes, and is weak sauce for small keitechs.
7 m tatula is great for all of the above, but is significantly less sensitive and less responsive and has faster action.
I dont have orochii, but most people like them so...
If you want to step up your game from helium ($300?) dont short yourself and just go for 76mml steez. You wont regret it.
Thats the rod I always bring when I fish the dupe.

Does the 76mml really have enough power to handle 1/2oz jighead plus plastic for tube fishing?

[rando]

1/2 oz. Jighead with plastc is a job for mh or heavy power jig rod not a mml spinning rod.
Op said 1/8 to 1/2oz. weight and I assumed he meant total weight. It can sure handle 1/2oz. Total weight.
Also the river he fishes is smaller shallow river I know very well, and it would never cross my mind to use 1/2 oz jighead with platic there.

[Drakestar]

I've thrown 1/2oz dropshots + worm on the 761MML and it does it if you need it to (the rod is rated up to 3/4oz), but in my mind the sweet spot is 1/4 - 3/8oz weights plus worm. I'd expect the same to be true for tubes.

If you're throwing 1/2oz plus trailer you pretty much need a 12lbs leader, anyway (I've had 10lbs Sniper break on me at the weight as I was slinging it out). 12lbs leader doesn't exactly scream "Smallie Fishing" to me, feels way too heavy duty.

[aaatkr]

Fast or extra fast?  I never was sure what the benefits are regarding one versus the other.   Some enlightenment would be appreciated.  Thanks again.

[ftl1951]

Fast or extra fast?  I never was sure what the benefits are regarding one versus the other.   Some enlightenment would be appreciated.  Thanks again.

There are a lot of different opinions about this and equally differing bits of information available on multiple internet sites. Extra fast versus fast will or should be the “depth” of bend in the rod tip. Generally speaking, extra fast does not bend as deep down the blank as a fast tip does. Again, generally speaking, the deeper the tip goes into the blank before the “backbone” takes hold, the easier (or softer) the rod is and helps to keep fish hooked up on lighter line. The faster tips or actions give better sensitivity and better hook sets because you are into the meat of the rod quicker (faster). If you are fishing crank baits, jerk baits, etc., then a softer action will help your hook up ratio as the rod acts as the mechanism to hook the fish more than the angler. If you are relying on your sensing the bite, then the the angler is more involved in setting the hook. A lot of anglers like the sensitivity of a rod for fishing tubes and other slack line types of baits where feel is important. Lastly, a softer tip on a spinning rod helps with loading the baits for longer casts. An extra fast action normally does not cast as far as say a regular fast or moderate fast one does.

I hope this isn’t more confusing. You can search for a lot of information on web. As I said, there is an abundance of written information out there.

[aaatkr]

Thanks ft. I know the general difference between the two tapers, but I was wondering about casting distance and accuracy for neds, small spin jigs and 1/8 tubes. Would either the Tatula Elite AGS or Orochi XX Shakyhead be more appropriate for that. I'm pretty much limited to bank fishing. Are the AGS guides worth the extra $$$? Thanks again.

[ftl1951]

Thanks ft. I know the general difference between the two tapers, but I was wondering about casting distance and accuracy for neds, small spin jigs and 1/8 tubes. Would either the Tatula Elite AGS or Orochi XX Shakyhead be more appropriate for that. I'm pretty much limited to bank fishing. Are the AGS guides worth the extra $$$? Thanks again.

So you are posing a question that will evoke many different responses based on people’s preferences in rod manufacturers, dollars spent, and all the justifications that go into personal choices. I have an Orochi XX Ronin and Whipsnake. I really enjoy fishing these rods a lot. I do not have the Shakyhead so I cannot give you a hands-on opinion. I believe this line of rods from Megabass are worth the $299 price tag and would be happy to purchase more when the need arises. I have a Daiwa Kage ML 7’1” rod that uses the same blank as the Elite and the regular Tatula rod lines. Now this is where it gets tricky. Daiwa uses the same blanks in the Tatula, Tatula Elite, and Kage rod lines. The components are what equates to the cost difference in these rods. You can get a Tatula 7’ medium rod for half the price of the Elite (AGS) and it is an excellent rod, especially for the price. My son fishes the Tatula rods and I cannot honestly tell hardly any difference between the two (Kage vs Tatula). So in my opinion, I do not believe the AGS guides are worth the extra money, but there are many anglers who do think they are. By the way, the 7’ medium action Tatula and Kage are rated to 3/4 oz lures. I have fished Ned rigs and tubes on both my Megabass Orochi and my Daiwa rods and enjoy using them both. If I had a preference, I would choose the Orochi over the Daiwa. It just gives me a more confident feel when fishing it. Don’t get me wrong, the Daiwa is a pleasure to fish and when you look at value, then the Daiwa line certainly gives you bang for your buck.

All that being said, when you start moving up in price, then you will start feeling the difference in the blank technology and components if comparing to the moderately priced lines. I have a couple of new Megabass Destroyer P5 spinning rods and am really surprised at how light, sensitive and responsive they are. Truly amazing. I also have a G Loomis NRX 902S that is absolutely unmatched in its fishability. I, too, am a bank (or wading) fisherman for the majority of the time. I find I use the Orochi XX rods a lot even though I have the higher end rods. Also the Daiwa rods go with me a bunch. It’s all a matter of conditions and confidence and usability given what species I’m targeting.

I honestly don’t think there is a perfect answer for which rod to choose in your situation or given the choices you have asked to compare. If value is important, then look at the regular Daiwa Tatula rod line. All the same actions and fishability at a much better price. If you’re ok with spending the $$ in the $299 range, I don’t think you would be disappointed in the Megabass rods. Either will cast your line up (baits) really well. You might want to search YouTube for Daiwa Tatula spinning rods as there are a couple of decent reviews. Good luck.

[Drakestar]

Thanks ft. I know the general difference between the two tapers, but I was wondering about casting distance and accuracy for neds, small spin jigs and 1/8 tubes. Would either the Tatula Elite AGS or Orochi XX Shakyhead be more appropriate for that. I'm pretty much limited to bank fishing. Are the AGS guides worth the extra $$$? Thanks again.

If distance is a major consideration get the rod with the bigger weight range so that you can throw heavier Ned heads and DS weights. (i.e. a 3/8 tungsten Ned head is still super finesse but casts far.) I only have the Shakyhead and can't compare it to the Daiwas, so I'll just say that you won't be disappointed in the Megabass rod.

The rod you REALLY want here is indeed the 761MML. Its longer blank casts farther, the weight range is amazing for slinging heavier finesse baits (it's rated up to 3/4oz), and the sensitivity is very very good (still feels like a high-end finesse stick). I only got this rod a couple months ago based on recommendations here, and I got it specifically to throw heavy (but small) finesse baits really far in winter. I've been really happy with the accuracy - I had several occasions where I was targeting a far-out Deeper fishfinder and was able to cast right on top of it (or over/past it when it made sense). Supposedly the 761MML is kind of designed as a smallie rod, but I don't get to do that here

That said, the rods you picked out in your price range both sound great (I know for a fact that the Orochi is). And if you're throwing an actual 1/8oz tube, in my mind a shorter rod is a good option, anyway. A slower action (Fast instead of XFast) should help a bit with casting distance. And if you're throwing braid-to-leader I recommend treating the line with something like "The Professor Braid Aid Line Conditioner", it really does make a difference because the line comes off the spool better.

[ftl1951]

Thanks ft. I know the general difference between the two tapers, but I was wondering about casting distance and accuracy for neds, small spin jigs and 1/8 tubes. Would either the Tatula Elite AGS or Orochi XX Shakyhead be more appropriate for that. I'm pretty much limited to bank fishing. Are the AGS guides worth the extra $$$? Thanks again.

If distance is a major consideration get the rod with the bigger weight range so that you can throw heavier Ned heads and DS weights. (i.e. a 3/8 tungsten Ned head is still super finesse but casts far.) I only have the Shakyhead and can't compare it to the Daiwas, so I'll just say that you won't be disappointed in the Megabass rod.

The rod you REALLY want here is indeed the 761MML. Its longer blank casts farther, the weight range is amazing for slinging heavier finesse baits (it's rated up to 3/4oz), and the sensitivity is very very good (still feels like a high-end finesse stick). I only got this rod a couple months ago based on recommendations here, and I got it specifically to throw heavy (but small) finesse baits really far in winter. I've been really happy with the accuracy - I had several occasions where I was targeting a far-out Deeper fishfinder and was able to cast right on top of it (or over/past it when it made sense). Supposedly the 761MML is kind of designed as a smallie rod, but I don't get to do that here

That said, the rods you picked out in your price range both sound great (I know for a fact that the Orochi is). And if you're throwing an actual 1/8oz tube, in my mind a shorter rod is a good option, anyway. A slower action (Fast instead of XFast) should help a bit with casting distance. And if you're throwing braid-to-leader I recommend treating the line with something like "The Professor Braid Aid Line Conditioner", it really does make a difference because the line comes off the spool better.

There is an excellent video review on the Steez Spinning rod. Search for “Daiwa’s 7’6 Unicorn”
It has a very good hands on review. Sounds like I need to consider adding this version of Daiwa to my equipment...

[Mike son]

Small world, I fish the Dupage too. Can't help ya out on a rec as I only use casting rods.

[aaatkr]

I've decided to add a few higher $$ rods to the mix. Fenwich Legend X or Legend Elite and the MB Destroyer Addermine. Would the Addermine be to much rod for my smaller choices? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks again.