Toray graphite

[KP Duty]

There are several or maybe even most of the rod manufacturers using toray graphite. Not too long ago, manufactures used to boast about the modulous of their rods. I read on these forums about some of the rod lines and which toray cloth they are using, but this info isn't easy to find via google. Seems like something we should be privy to. I realize how a manufacturer rolls the blank is important, but I'd like to more about what higher end rods lines are using. Maybe you think it is insignificant. Anyway... Here is toray's graphite line and stats.

https://www.toraycma.com/products/carbon-fiber/

[City17Banner]

I can only comment on the rod blank layup and technology used on the rod I personally own and am familiar with using. Here’s the rod blank information I was able to find from the Evergreen International Japan Website for my three favorite Evergreen casting rods: the Rapid Gunner RSR, the Black Raven Extreme RS, and the Orion Lightning Strike. A few quick notes about each rod and then the rod blank information below is pretty self-explanatory as I am not a materials scientist or engineer, I can only go by the extensive information provided by Evergreen International Japan

The Evergreen International Kaleido Inspirare RSR-C70XHX Rapid Gunner RSR is without any doubt the most sensitive and powerful heavy football jig rod I have ever owned and used! Prior to this I was using a Daiwa Steez Racing Design RD 7011HRB Jigga Stick for presenting my 3/4oz OSP Hunts hybrid football jigs + trailer for deep-water smallmouth bass and very pleased with this rod. After acquiring and using the Rapid Gunner RSR though, it was clear to me that the Rapid Gunner was not only more powerful, it was more sensitive and is the only bottom contact rod where I can be anywhere in the rod movement cycle of presenting the football jig (I prefer to stroke and drag my jigs) and still be able to set the hook on trophy smallmouth bass without having to reel down on the fish!

The Evergreen International Kaleido Inspirare IRSC-66MHF-TG40X Black Raven Extreme RS is simply the most sensitive bottom contact rod I own and use bar none! It has replaced both my Daiwa Steez Racing Design RD 7101MH/HFB and RD7101MH/HXB-ST rods as my go to 3/8-1/2oz Texas Rig rod and I don’t miss either of the two Racing Design rods. The nearest rod in terms of sensitivity to the Black Raven Extreme RS I own is the Daiwa Racing Design RD 6101ML+ Shallow Cover Bait Finesse rod, but that rod does not have the sheer power of the Black Raven Extreme to set the hooks on trophy smallmouth bass in deep water fishing situations, it is relegated to weightless Texas-Rig 5” Senkos and Maxscent Generals on my bass boats.

The Evergreen International Orion OCSC-67ML+ Lightning Strike is perhaps the best production small jerkbait casting rod I own; indeed, I like it so much, I have a second one on order. I say it is the best production rod simply because I own two Sedition SDC-605MMR-FTW Bloody casting rods and those are the best small jerkbait and spinnerbait rods I have ever used! Whether it is presenting a DUO Realis Rozante 77SP jerkbait or a 1/4oz Bottom UP ChiBeeble spinnerbait, the Lightning Strike provides the ability to cast, retrieve, and handle big smallmouth bass with ease. In addition, unlike the Kaleido Inspirare rods, the Orion rods are much more subtle and stealthy in their ascetic looks. As I commented in a PM to another TT member, “I can imagine this is the rod Darth Vader would choose if he wanted to present a DUO Realis Rozante 77SP jerkbait for trophy smallmouth bass in the waters of NW Wisconsin!”

Please have a great day!

Evergreen International Kaleido Inspirare RSR-C70XHX Rapid Gunner RSR Rod Blank Information (Courtesy of the Evergreen International Japan Website: EVERGREEN - RSR-C70XHX Rapid Gunner RSR (www-evergreen--fishing-com.translate.goog)
■ Blank



❶ Main shaft (bat to tip): High-strength, high elastic modulus carbon fiber "Trading Card ® T1100G" & "Nano Alloy ® technology" is adopted to realize amazing stickiness and power while realizing a lightweight and slender and sharp operation feeling. Demonstrate.

❷ Bat-Center: Ultra-high elasticity, low resin 50 tons Carbon reinforcement makes it lightweight and highly rigid.

❸ Bat-Center: Unidirection micro-pitch boron fiber enhances metallic rigidity.

❹ Grip end to belly: ± 30 ° Narrow angle high density quattro (4 axes) Cross reinforcement strengthens anti-twist rigidity.
・ For details → Inspirale Concept Page

❺ Bat-Berry: High elasticity and low resin 40 ton carbon assists to ensure tension rigidity.


Evergreen International Kaleido Inspirare IRSC-66MHF-TG40X Black Raven Extreme RS Rod Blank Information (Courtesy of Evergreen International Japan Website: Black Raven Extreme Development Story -EVERGREEN (www-evergreen--fishing-com.translate.goog)





Evergreen International Orion OCSC-67ML+ Lightning Strike Rod Blank Information (Courtesy of Evergreen International Japan Website: EVERGREEN - OCSC-67ML+ Lightning Strike (www-evergreen--fishing-com.translate.goog)
Feature

■ Blank
"TORECA T1100G" & "Nanoalloy Technology" A regular taper with a stagnant bend curve that adopts carbon prepreg applied to "Nanoalloy ® ® It demonstrates tremendous resilience."Treca®" T1100G "" & "Nanoalloy® Technology" High-strength, high elastic modulus carbon fiber "Treca®" T1100G "" with "Nanoalloy® Technology" applied to all layers from tip to bat Regular taper with a bend curve without stagnation. Demonstrate tremendous restoring force.
* "Trading Card ®" & "Nano Alloy ® Technology" are registered trademarks of Toray Industries, Inc.


Quattro woven clothCompared to
A quattro woven cloth that has a higher stacking density and is woven thicker than the conventional quattro (4-axis) cloth is newly adopted for the butt section. Strongly suppresses twisting and blurring of blanks.


■ Guide system
Emphasis is placed on the balance between weight reduction and strength, and a SiC ring / titanium frame guide with a size that is neither too large nor too small is adopted.
● Top: SiC ring / titanium frame guide
● Tip-Berry (4 pieces): SiC ring, titanium frame reinforced single foot guide
● Very bat (4 pieces): SiC ring, titanium frame double foot guide
In addition, (1) compared to general settings, the lifting power is enhanced by placing the original guide on the grip side with more blank power. (2) By making the spacing between each guide of the berry ~ bat wider, it becomes easier. to produce line slack, and excessive line tension, which is a negative element when operating the lure, is suppressed.


■ Grip design (foremost)
Foregripless design that allows lightweight and sharp operation. Blank touch is possible directly when purming, and the design eliminates thread winding of the blank and grip joints.


■ Grip design (reel seat)
Emphasizing gripping performance, operability, and sensitivity, it adopts a slender and lightweight blank-touch Fuji ECS reel sheet.


■ Grip design (center, rear)
A separate type that supports casting from all directions and pursues operability and weight reduction.
Both the center grip and rear grip use a high-hardness type EVA, realizing excellent durability unique to EVA material and a direct operation feeling using hard material.


■ Grip length

■ Black Design
Monotone design based on black that exudes sharpness and a sense of heaviness at the same time. The combination of black colors with different textures expresses a sense of luxury even in simplicity.

[KP Duty]

Interesting read....thanks for the comments. I found more info on TZlure about jdm shimano blanks versus the shimano japan site. Your comments illustrate how the blank is rolled and the resins used are as or more important than which toray cloth is used. I just want to be educated. My brother fishes, but doesn't have 'the illness' that we do. I want to be able to tell him about my jdm rods construction....not just that they 'look sweet and are well built'.

[City17Banner]

Interesting read....thanks for the comments. I found more info on TZlure about jdm shimano blanks versus the shimano japan site. Your comments illustrate how the blank is rolled and the resins used are as or more important than which toray cloth is used. I just want to be educated. My brother fishes, but doesn't have 'the illness' that we do. I want to be able to tell him about my jdm rods construction....not just that they 'look sweet and are well built'.

I agree with you, and I know I benefit from being a more educated consumer of high-end JDM rods, despite the vast amount of collective wisdom here on TT, it's sometimes necessary to "go beyond" the hype and see what truly goes into making a world class casting rod and there seems to be a large disparity among the JDM rod manufacturers for providing this type of detailed information that all of us are seeking.

I find that Evergreen International appears to be much more open to sharing detailed knowledge about the rod blank materials, pre-preg resin layup, and where/how they reinforce specific areas of the rod blank. I know the way they laid out the rod guides between the Evergreen Orion ML Degel and the Orion ML+ Lightning Strike helped me make the decision to purchase the Lightning Strike since I was seeking a small jerkbait rod as opposed to a finesse rubber jig rod like the Degel.

In truth, it's part of what is keeping me from acquiring a Shimano 2022 Poison Ultima 1611ML+, there's literally no detailed information about the rod blank, how it's rolled, or the rod building decisions that go into the rod itself. Perhaps, that's the conservative analytical side of me coming out, but when I can spend hours researching all of the different detailed rod building information about an Evergreen Kaleido Inspirare or Orion rod, it's hard to take that proverbial "leap of faith" that Shimano does make an equivalent (or better) rod compared to these excellent Evergreen rods I already own and use without any prior knowledge of how the rod is being built.

Just my 2 cents and I'm sure I'm just being pedantic now that I am getting older and am retired and fishing more than I used to be able to while I was a working stiff.

Please have a great day!

[KP Duty]

Interesting read....thanks for the comments. I found more info on TZlure about jdm shimano blanks versus the shimano japan site. Your comments illustrate how the blank is rolled and the resins used are as or more important than which toray cloth is used. I just want to be educated. My brother fishes, but doesn't have 'the illness' that we do. I want to be able to tell him about my jdm rods construction....not just that they 'look sweet and are well built'.

I agree with you, and I know I benefit from being a more educated consumer of high-end JDM rods, despite the vast amount of collective wisdom here on TT, it's sometimes necessary to "go beyond" the hype and see what truly goes into making a world class casting rod and there seems to be a large disparity among the JDM rod manufacturers for providing this type of detailed information that all of us are seeking.

I find that Evergreen International appears to be much more open to sharing detailed knowledge about the rod blank materials, pre-preg resin layup, and where/how they reinforce specific areas of the rod blank. I know the way they laid out the rod guides between the Evergreen Orion ML Degel and the Orion ML+ Lightning Strike helped me make the decision to purchase the Lightning Strike since I was seeking a small jerkbait rod as opposed to a finesse rubber jig rod like the Degel.

In truth, it's part of what is keeping me from acquiring a Shimano 2022 Poison Ultima 1611ML+, there's literally no detailed information about the rod blank, how it's rolled, or the rod building decisions that go into the rod itself. Perhaps, that's the conservative analytical side of me coming out, but when I can spend hours researching all of the different detailed rod building information about an Evergreen Kaleido Inspirare or Orion rod, it's hard to take that proverbial "leap of faith" that Shimano does make an equivalent (or better) rod compared to these excellent Evergreen rods I already own and use without any prior knowledge of how the rod is being built.

Just my 2 cents and I'm sure I'm just being pedantic now that I am getting older and am retired and fishing more than I used to be able to while I was a working stiff.

Please have a great day!

Well, the JDM Shimanos are where it started for me. The '16 Poison Glorious and Ultima use the Toray 1100g grsphite. For '21/'22, both rod lines are utilizing the TG M40x. I'd definitely recommend picking one up

http://www.sunstar-tw.com/fishing/rod/f ... /3533.html

[City17Banner]

Thank you for the recommendation and the informational link sir!

Do you have any insights or thoughts on selecting between the 1611ML+ or the 1610M for presenting 1/4-3/8oz jerkbaits between the two rods? I am primarily fishing for smallmouth bass in open water conditions as our flowages in NW Wisconsin do not have much proliferation of aquatic weeds and cover beyond the immediate shoreline area. Thank you in advance for your sharing your experience and knowledge!

Please have a great day!

[Cracker]

Well, the JDM Shimanos are where it started for me. The '16 Poison Glorious and Ultima use the Toray 1100g grsphite. For '21/'22, both rod lines are utilizing the TG M40x. I'd definitely recommend picking one up

http://www.sunstar-tw.com/fishing/rod/f ... /3533.html

I have been told - only two models of Ultima lineup use M40X graphite - 172H and 2610L-S.

[Hogsticker2]

Thank you for the recommendation and the informational link sir!

Do you have any insights or thoughts on selecting between the 1611ML+ or the 1610M for presenting 1/4-3/8oz jerkbaits between the two rods? I am primarily fishing for smallmouth bass in open water conditions as our flowages in NW Wisconsin do not have much proliferation of aquatic weeds and cover beyond the immediate shoreline area. Thank you in advance for your sharing your experience and knowledge!

Please have a great day!

You will enjoy the newest Shimano blanks. I own the 6'10m Glorious, and it's glorious. The only other rods I've owned that I felt provided similar feedback were the original Megabass X7 line, and just slightly behind a few Custom Phenix K2s.
You will definitely need the medium to present any 3/8 oz spinnerbaits. In fact, this is the exact rod I was throwing the quarter ounce High Pitchers on yesterday. The sensitivity transmits throughout the entire blank, down into the handle. Sharp and electric bite detection, plus the rod is super light.
It has similar power to my custom Point Blank 7 ft medium fast, but the blank is tighter, sharper, and more crisp in nature.
The Point Blanks are no joke either. They just have a different feel to them. More of a hollow, lingering zing and vibration. I have no doubt that the inclusion of the M40X has provided something a little extra. Most rod manufacturers don't want you to know about their secret recipes - proprietary.
You can get even more information from the Olympic Graphiteleader website. They actually make the larger majority of Evergreens blanks.

[City17Banner]

Thank you for the recommendation and the informational link sir!

Do you have any insights or thoughts on selecting between the 1611ML+ or the 1610M for presenting 1/4-3/8oz jerkbaits between the two rods? I am primarily fishing for smallmouth bass in open water conditions as our flowages in NW Wisconsin do not have much proliferation of aquatic weeds and cover beyond the immediate shoreline area. Thank you in advance for your sharing your experience and knowledge!

Please have a great day!

You will enjoy the newest Shimano blanks. I own the 6'10m Glorious, and it's glorious. The only other rods I've owned that I felt provided similar feedback were the original Megabass X7 line, and just slightly behind a few Custom Phenix K2s.
You will definitely need the medium to present any 3/8 oz spinnerbaits. In fact, this is the exact rod I was throwing the quarter ounce High Pitchers on yesterday. The sensitivity transmits throughout the entire blank, down into the handle. Sharp and electric bite detection, plus the rod is super light.
It has similar power to my custom Point Blank 7 ft medium fast, but the blank is tighter, sharper, and more crisp in nature.
The Point Blanks are no joke either. They just have a different feel to them. More of a hollow, lingering zing and vibration. I have no doubt that the inclusion of the M40X has provided something a little extra. Most rod manufacturers don't want you to know about their secret recipes - proprietary.
You can get even more information from the Olympic Graphiteleader website. They actually make the larger majority of Evergreens blanks.

That sounds like the type of rod I want for my "finesse" jerkbait and spinnerbait fishing sir! I will pre-order the Poison Ultima 1610M rod then from the "other place" and hope it does ship sometime later this month or August as they claim!

Yes, I admit to spending lots of time on the Olympic Graphiteleader website, but for me their site is a bit messy in its layout so I tend to prefer the EG website more, but I can't argue about their rods since I really like my Olympic Vigore 71H rod for presenting 1/4-3/8oz Texas Rigs!

Thank you everyone for your insights and thoughts as it's always great to learn more about all the fantastic JDM rods out there!

Now if only there was an easier way to acquire Sedition rods than Yahoo.jp???

[KP Duty]

Well, the JDM Shimanos are where it started for me. The '16 Poison Glorious and Ultima use the Toray 1100g grsphite. For '21/'22, both rod lines are utilizing the TG M40x. I'd definitely recommend picking one up

http://www.sunstar-tw.com/fishing/rod/f ... /3533.html

I have been told - only two models of Ultima lineup use M40X graphite - 172H and 2610L-S.

The link I posted does have an asterisk at the end of the paragraph regarding the m40x. It indeed says only in the models you listed. However, the article is prior to the new '22 models as listed on Tackle Havenn (triangle grip 6'10" M and 7' MH). You would think the newest models would have the blank upgrade. .

[KP Duty]

Thank you for the recommendation and the informational link sir!

Do you have any insights or thoughts on selecting between the 1611ML+ or the 1610M for presenting 1/4-3/8oz jerkbaits between the two rods? I am primarily fishing for smallmouth bass in open water conditions as our flowages in NW Wisconsin do not have much proliferation of aquatic weeds and cover beyond the immediate shoreline area. Thank you in advance for your sharing your experience and knowledge!

Please have a great day!

I have the 6'10"M Glorious, but I haven't thrown a hard jerkbait on it. I use it for everything from wacky rigged worms to small chatterbaits/spinnerbaits/buzzbaits. Versatile rod. With the strong dollar, Ultimas are hard to come by, but you can pre-order the '22 1610M from Tackle Haven....

https://jdmtackleheaven.com/products/sh ... 2259&_ss=r

[City17Banner]

Yes, I have already pre-ordered this rod and I am just waiting for it to arrive and ship from Kazumi and the good folks there. In the meantime, he was able to secure a second Sedition 702ML-FTW Cristobal Limited for me so I'm sure that this new Class S rod will serve me in good stead until the new 22 model 1610M Ultima rod shows up!

Thank you again for everyone's willingness to share their experiences and knowledge and I hope it doesn't take too long for the new Ultima to arrive at my doorstep.

Please have a great day!

[Phish-Hunter]

The link I posted does have an asterisk at the end of the paragraph regarding the m40x. It indeed says only in the models you listed. However, the article is prior to the new '22 models as listed on Tackle Havenn (triangle grip 6'10" M and 7' MH). You would think the newest models would have the blank upgrade. .
[/quote]

I find it best to stop thinking about certain materials being an upgrade when looking at a rod line as dialed in as Poison Ultima or Evergreen. Shimano's UBD (ultimate blank design) process, by definition selects the best material for the blank. Higher modulus does not equate to better performance. Everything that goes into the blank is equally important imo. The mandrell design, resin system, fiber material, direction of layups, scrim cloth vs carbon cloth vs winding slit, type of resin, amount of resin, pressure used in rolling, and reinforcement cloths/braiding all effect performance significantly. Even guide selection and placement will make rod blanks perform differently, ie evergreen uses the same blank with different guide placement to change power and performance.

My point is, don't get too hung up on materials and certainly don't let a company's secrecy around their design deter you from trying something. Daiwa doesn't disclose anything about the fiber material used, and it is different on each blank. HVF can have a higher modulous than SVF nanoplus and vice versa.

[Jbc88]

A few months ago I ordered the black raven from japanlureshop but backed out of it and have been regretting since. BUT I finally found 1 available again at samuraitackle and jump right on it. That site does cost more than japanlureshop but the rod is very hard to find so I bought it. If anyone is interested, the site does have other evergreen rods in stock.

[Drakestar]

I find it best to stop thinking about certain materials being an upgrade when looking at a rod line as dialed in as Poison Ultima or Evergreen. Shimano's UBD (ultimate blank design) process, by definition selects the best material for the blank. Higher modulus does not equate to better performance. Everything that goes into the blank is equally important imo. The mandrell design, resin system, fiber material, direction of layups, scrim cloth vs carbon cloth vs winding slit, type of resin, amount of resin, pressure used in rolling, and reinforcement cloths/braiding all effect performance significantly. Even guide selection and placement will make rod blanks perform differently, ie evergreen uses the same blank with different guide placement to change power and performance.

My point is, don't get too hung up on materials and certainly don't let a company's secrecy around their design deter you from trying something. Daiwa doesn't disclose anything about the fiber material used, and it is different on each blank. HVF can have a higher modulous than SVF nanoplus and vice versa.

1000% this. I stopped worrying about the actual graphite used in a blank because from what I understand (I'm not an expert, but it's based on similar information as what Phish-Hunter says) it's not a good indicator of the rod's actual performance.

Doesn't mean enthusiasts like us shouldn't be curious or geek out about blank and rod production. It just feels like such a complicated problem space that reducing it to one of two factors feels tricky and can even give a false sense of understanding.