Strength testing of carbon fiber reel parts

[mark poulson]

With Shimano's new C14+ reels coming out, it seems like the composites have finally reached a level where they can be used in reels without sacrificing anything.
I know it's fine for some things, like side plates, handles, and drag stars, but now they are using it for reel frames, so it must have met some kind of rigidity test.
Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the carbon reel parts and frames, and the same parts in aluminum?
Has TT taken a couple reels apart and tortured them, side by side?

[BassMan33]

I would also love to see this

[JWR075]

What I have found interesting is that Daiwa has praised Zaion for its strength, however with the new Tatula, they preach that Aluminum is used for overall strength and durability.

Many people like to compare this material to those in firearms, but what they fail to tell people is that composites/polymers while used are not relied on for overall strength in firearms. Prime example is look at the famous "plastic" Glock, it still uses metal in all important places even in the plastic frame.

I find it funny that for years we have been preached to that graphite (which is a carbon form) frames were not top of the line and that only Aluminum and Magnesium were the way to go, now we are being preached to that "carbon fiber" is the way to go. I will tolerate carbon based materials in the side plates, but I think I will stick with "metal" framed reels.

[tywithay]

The important thing to look at is the shape of the design. A spinning reel made of weaker graphite has a long slender stem, which is relatively easy to flex. A baitcaster is rounded and the foot is recessed into the frame, not too mention it's nearly symmetrical. When a fish is on the line, the line is pulling straight out through the line guide and any change of direction will first be handled by the rod. Unless you're using 50lb braid with the drag completely locked down, there should be little chance of flex. Any from the looks of things, that's not really the niche for the carbon reels on the market anyhow; they make reels to do that kind of thing.

[mark poulson]

I just keep reading how important have a "rigid frame" is for keeping bearings and gears aligned, to get optimum performance.
Baitcaster reel frames are so thin in areas I worry about that, although the carbon fiber technology has come a long way since one my sons got his first carbon fiber spool on a spinning reel, back in the early '90's, and had the line cut into the lip and ruin it.
I've been gun shy about carbon fiber ever since, but now they make planes out of it, so it has obviously been vastly improved.
As you say tywithay, the strain on a baitcaster is different than on a spinning reel. There have been carbon fiber spinning reels on the market for a while, and they seem to hold up.
With a baitcaster, there are only three bearings at most that come into play on the cast, and they're all held in line by a steel(?) spool shaft. The side plate that holds the gears and handle is thicker and uninterrupted, so it has a better chance of staying rigid even if it's made from carbon fiber.
If a carbon fiber baitcasting reel frame holds up, and is even lighter, I'm all for it. Since it's probably made from oil, at least I'll know the dinosaurs died for a good cause!

[down4ttown]

True carbon fiber is plenty strong for fishing reels. But metal is metal and cheap which is why it is used in the tatula.

[JWR075]

True carbon fiber is also extremely brittle by nature thus making it not so good for high stress areas.

[tywithay]

True carbon fiber is also extremely brittle by nature thus making it not so good for high stress areas.

With the proper resin at a certain thickness, it's nearly indestructible. We make some panels where I work that can stop a bullet and barely leave a scratch.

[jamesdta]

Metal screws into a plastic body would be easy to strip...

[brwn_bggr]

True carbon fiber is also extremely brittle by nature thus making it not so good for high stress areas.

With the proper resin at a certain thickness, it's nearly indestructible. We make some panels where I work that can stop a bullet and barely leave a scratch.

My thoughts are that this is the direction I hope reel manufactures go with this...other wise,it's just hype...most parts touted as "carbon fibre" are fiber filled,a resin with carbon "fuzz" to make up the matrix...these fibres must ramain fairly small to flow through a mold...though this is stronger than any polymer alone,it is not in the same class as a part made with scrim/clothe and resin...to have the strands uninterrupted,from border to border on the component...with the open architecture of a reel frame,this might be quite a challenge...if the manufactures choose to stay with the fiber filled method of molding,I think it's just an effort to reduce costs once again and charge more because it's hi-tec lighter...

Sorry about the rant...I was just thinking out loud and my phone heard me...

[BucketHunter]

^they would just use a threaded plug molded into the body to receive any screws.
Carbon Fibre is plenty strong and extremely modular (in that it could be made in a lot of different ways to serve a lot of different purpose). Reels to this point have been made with a Resin/Graphite Powder. Carbon Fibre and Molded Graphite resin are two different things.
I think that if or when a reel company finally decides utilize actual "carbon fibre' the result will be incredible. But the complexity of a fishing reel frame does not really lend itself to that process, and it is VERY expensive.
Top tier race cars are made with Carbon Fibre for its STIFFNESS and weight saving properties. True CF is far more superior than Metal in almost every way except for impact and crush strength, and remember that's a 1500lb car at 200mph. I am sure that a fishing reel could be made nearly indestructible.
We need to get it straight, there are no reels made from sheets of carbon fibre, pressed under high pressure and moulded with resin. This process is much different than mixing glue with powder and pouring it into a mould. It is actually more like rod blank making than pouring liquid material into a form. I think in order to build a true CF reel someone would need to start from the ground up and totally revolutionize and retool the design and manufacturing process.

[JWR075]

True carbon fiber is also extremely brittle by nature thus making it not so good for high stress areas.

With the proper resin at a certain thickness, it's nearly indestructible. We make some panels where I work that can stop a bullet and barely leave a scratch.

With the proper make up plastic can stop bullets also. Does not make it good for everything.

[IlliniDawg01]

With Shimano's new C14+ reels coming out, it seems like the composites have finally reached a level where they can be used in reels without sacrificing anything.
I know it's fine for some things, like side plates, handles, and drag stars, but now they are using it for reel frames, so it must have met some kind of rigidity test.
Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the carbon reel parts and frames, and the same parts in aluminum?
Has TT taken a couple reels apart and tortured them, side by side?

I think you are missing some important parts of the equation.

6 Parts: Cost, weight, durability, stiffness, feel, ease of shaping

Aluminum: mid cost, mid-high weight, very good durability, very good stiffness, best feel?, can be cast or cnc'd

Steel: mid cost, high weight, pretty good stiffness, very good durability but corrodes in salt, great feel, can be cast or cnc'd

Magnesium: high cost, low weight, very good stiffness, durable but can corrode in salt, great feel?, can be cast or cnc'd?

CI4/Zaion/etc: mid high cost, mid low weight, very good durability, very good stiffness, hollow feel?, injection molded

Graphite: low cost, mid low weight, low durability, low stiffness, hollow feel, injection molded

Every material has different pluses and minuses. The only real negative for the new carbon based super materials is feel. They just don't have that classic aluminum feel that many anglers prefer.

DaveJ

[alex09]

CI4/Zaion/etc: mid high cost, mid low weight, very good durability, very good stiffness, hollow feel?, injection molded

I think the cost should be low since they are using injection molding instead of CNC to mass produce the parts.

[IlliniDawg01]

CI4/Zaion/etc: mid high cost, mid low weight, very good durability, very good stiffness, hollow feel?, injection molded

I think the cost should be low since they are using injection molding instead of CNC to mass produce the parts.

It might be cheaper to work with now, but there is probably a lot of sunk cost involved in all of the R&D that they have to recoupe. Plus, since they are selling it as a premium material they have to up the price to the end-user. It makes more sense for the manufacturers to use them since they have already spent the money to make the stuff and they can sell it for a premium. The negative is that a lot of users still prefer aluminum.

DaveJ