Top 3 bearings

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Top 3 bearings

Post by goldrod » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:50 pm

Looking to buy a set from somewhere outside my norm.

What are your top three bearings and how have they held up over time?
Did you buy more than one set?

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by tywithay » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:28 pm

Zpi SiC
Hedgehog Air
Hedgehog ZR

Depending on the application, I think either of the Hedgehog are a better value.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Cagey » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:34 pm

I hunt down the bearings I use same as any engineer hunts down his parts- I go by specs only. Brand names mean nothing- except higher prices. Right now I can not tell you who made them.

The bearings I buy are made in China, they are ABEC 7 100% ceramic hybrid ball bearings. I don't need any corporations to slap their name on them and then jack up the prices like you see on ebay right now. The bearings I use cost me about $4.00 each purchased in bulk, while on ebay you can find the same bearings in so called tune up kits for like $15.00 each.

By switching to 100% ceramic ball bearings there is no need to change the size to a smaller bearing because of weight only. Just by changing the balls from solid steel to ceramic is probably more of a weight change loss than downsizing.

Ceramic bearings are said to last up to 5 times longer than steel. A couple of my old shimano reels still have their original stainless steel bearings now 30 years old and just now getting good and broken in! So if steel lasts well for 30 years, then in about 150 years My great, great, great, great, great grandchildren might notice some wear in say about 3064.

So far I have purchased about 50 of their bearings and I'm about to buy another 20. I'd go broke if I tried to buy brand name only.

So give the no brand name Chinese ceramic bearings a chance. For less than $10.00 you can't go wrong!

Below is a link to an ebay auction for a pair of the orange seal ceramic hybrid bearings direct from China. The auction has been up for a few days now and already 91 pairs of these bearings have been sold in the USA- direct from China- going right around Boca and saving $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-3x10x4-Hyb ... RTM1963931
Last edited by Cagey on Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:00 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by DammitKhoa » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:32 pm

I agree with Cagey, to an extent. Most of the time, brand names usually means $.. as is with purses, jewelry and all that nonsense lol However, the reason I tend not to buy cheaper Chinese products because more often then not, they aren't held to stricter standards and don't take pride in their work as some other communities do (which *typically* results in superior products); hence the reason Germans are known for their quality and craftsmanship.

How can you tell if the numbers the companies are publishing are in fact true? It's very hard to tell what's going behind the curtain. With that said, I'm sure you can get some quality bearings from China. Just be cautious of where you're getting it from. At the end of the day, if it performs to or above your standards, that's all that matters.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Thor » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:51 pm

Well, let me be the first to give a dissenting opinion.

If you believe that products made in China, especially a commodity product, like bearings, are better, please buy them and keep their economy moving. However, to believe they are the equivalent to ABEC standards, I will not comment because it will not be nice.

Yes, they are cheaper. Yes, there is plenty of marketing hype from those brands that are more established. One last time, bearings are mass produced items. There is little precision, less accuracy and quality control is questionable, at best. Why do you think so many people find different performance levels from bearings from the same manufacturer. Now, if you have a testing process that is valid and that you trust, simple solution. Buy 100, test all of them, sort out the ones that meet your expectations and return the rest. Does any of this make any difference, only you can answer that question.
Last edited by Thor on Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Cagey » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:18 am

I test them all for free spin ability. If it does not free spin it is not used.

About one year ago I did a little bit of bearing research and I contacted numerous bearing manufacturers by phone or email.

I contacted American bearing companies, German, and Japanese.

What I found out was that nearly all of them relied heavily on steel ball bearings made in China from mostly recycled steel. Even the old Japanese NMB bearings now use Chinese recycled steel:

"NMB is part of the Minebea Group of Companies. Minebea Co.,LTD is a comprehensive manufacturer of high precision components. With 36 manufacturing facilities and a multinational presence in 18 countries, including Thailand, China, Singapore, Japan, Europe and North America, Minebea remains a world leader in the design and manufacturing of electro-mechanical components."

The Chinese would not stay in business long if their products did not measure up to international industrial standards. And they must be doing something right if just about every bearing company in the world is buying from them. Sure they make some cheap crap, but they also make some decent stuff too and I would like to think that bearings are one of them.
Last edited by Cagey on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Cagey » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:33 am

Image

Well, well, well, looky here... Boca bearings are Chinese!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... g&_sacat=0

Now look at the Boca price: $30.00 a pair! You can buy them direct from China for $4.00 each shipping included.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOCA-STAINLESS- ... 13&vxp=mtr

Uh oh, here is another made in China bearing being marketed and sold by Boca bearings.

Uh let's see... buy it from Boca: $67.46 plus $9.00 in shipping! OUT-FRIGGIN'-RAGEOUS! And completely unacceptable especially when I can buy this same Chinese ABEC 3 bearing for about $2.00 from China.

If some of you want to buy the hype and have the money to pay for it then by all means spend away! You are buying from China anyways even if it is sent to you from Japan!

I choose to do a little bit of research and get similar quality for much less.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Bootytrain » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:38 am

DammitKhoa wrote:I agree with Cagey, to an extent. Most of the time, brand names usually means $.. as is with purses, jewelry and all that nonsense lol However, the reason I tend not to buy cheaper Chinese products because more often then not, they aren't held to stricter standards and don't take pride in their work as some other communities do (which *typically* results in superior products); hence the reason Germans are known for their quality and craftsmanship.

How can you tell if the numbers the companies are publishing are in fact true? It's very hard to tell what's going behind the curtain. With that said, I'm sure you can get some quality bearings from China. Just be cautious of where you're getting it from. At the end of the day, if it performs to or above your standards, that's all that matters.
I had to laugh at the part about German quality and craftsmanship. VWs are known to be very problematic and unreliable. I'll take a Honda over an overhyped German engineered VW all day long.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by phatbass » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:45 am

tg's rocket bearings
boca orange seals

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Cagey » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:10 am

phatbass wrote:tg's rocket bearings
boca orange seals

Those Boca orange seal bearings are direct from China- and found all over ebay WITHOUT the Boca name or prices attached.

My whole point is why pay Boca prices?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-3x10x4-Hyb ... RTM1963931

Here is 10 for $35.00:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-3x10x4-Hy ... 3a7fdbcfb8

120 sold! That is 1,200 orange seal bearings on their way to the USA sold in the last couple of days.

50 of them for about $3.00 each for the 3 x 10 x 4 size:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Hybrid-Ce ... 3cd1b07f50

And according to this one auction page, 12 of these have been sold in just the last few days. That is 600 orange seal bearings on their way to the USA from China. I wonder who is buying these? I would suspect reel repair shops and people who want to mark them up for resale in USA for profit.

Boca who? Yeah now we know their secret.

If Boca is buying them I would imagine they would be buying the bearings in numbers like the thousands or tens of thousands and getting an even better price. I would not be surprised if Boca is paying less than one dollar per bearing.

Their markup is insane. And for anyone to pay that is even more insane! Just makes no sense to me. I want more bang for my buck.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by DammitKhoa » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:40 am

Cagey wrote:Now, I did not say the bearing I was buying was better. I never said that. I said it met certain standards and I purchased based on that alone and it has not been a mistake not once.

So I never said better. What I said was they are less expensive and provide me just about the same results as I would expect from buying hedgehogs.
Good findings. Try them, see if you like them (with respect to the pricing as well as quality) and if you do, that's all that matters.
Bootytrain wrote:
DammitKhoa wrote:I agree with Cagey, to an extent. Most of the time, brand names usually means $.. as is with purses, jewelry and all that nonsense lol However, the reason I tend not to buy cheaper Chinese products because more often then not, they aren't held to stricter standards and don't take pride in their work as some other communities do (which *typically* results in superior products); hence the reason Germans are known for their quality and craftsmanship.

How can you tell if the numbers the companies are publishing are in fact true? It's very hard to tell what's going behind the curtain. With that said, I'm sure you can get some quality bearings from China. Just be cautious of where you're getting it from. At the end of the day, if it performs to or above your standards, that's all that matters.
I had to laugh at the part about German quality and craftsmanship. VWs are known to be very problematic and unreliable. I'll take a Honda over an overhyped German engineered VW all day long.
You can laugh, that is your opinion. Apparently you missed my point though. Not always, but it is the general consensus that German engineering>Chinese engineering. They know their stuff. I own a Volkswagen and my OPINION is they certainly are weird in the ways they design things (compared to American and Japanese tooling). But they are not horrible. Another example: they know their steels. German carbon steel (stuff I use when it comes to tactical knives etc) are beyond amazing and are used as the benchmark with respect to their categories.

Since you brought up cars, the real question is: would you rather drive a Volkswagen or a Chinese car, which are notorious for copying designs? Sure, you also mentioned Japanese cars such as Honda. Now, I did not rag on Japanese products. I'm a fan of them. Besides the Volkswagen, I own two Toyotas. You introduced oranges when we were talking about apples.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Bootytrain » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 am

DammitKhoa wrote:
Cagey wrote:Now, I did not say the bearing I was buying was better. I never said that. I said it met certain standards and I purchased based on that alone and it has not been a mistake not once.

So I never said better. What I said was they are less expensive and provide me just about the same results as I would expect from buying hedgehogs.
Good findings. Try them, see if you like them (with respect to the pricing as well as quality) and if you do, that's all that matters.
Bootytrain wrote:
DammitKhoa wrote:I agree with Cagey, to an extent. Most of the time, brand names usually means $.. as is with purses, jewelry and all that nonsense lol However, the reason I tend not to buy cheaper Chinese products because more often then not, they aren't held to stricter standards and don't take pride in their work as some other communities do (which *typically* results in superior products); hence the reason Germans are known for their quality and craftsmanship.

How can you tell if the numbers the companies are publishing are in fact true? It's very hard to tell what's going behind the curtain. With that said, I'm sure you can get some quality bearings from China. Just be cautious of where you're getting it from. At the end of the day, if it performs to or above your standards, that's all that matters.
I had to laugh at the part about German quality and craftsmanship. VWs are known to be very problematic and unreliable. I'll take a Honda over an overhyped German engineered VW all day long.
You can laugh, that is your opinion. Apparently you missed my point though. Not always, but it is the general consensus that German engineering>Chinese engineering. They know their stuff. I own a Volkswagen and my OPINION is they certainly are weird in the ways they design things (compared to American and Japanese tooling). But they are not horrible. Another example: they know their steels. German carbon steel (stuff I use when it comes to tactical knives etc) are beyond amazing and are used as the benchmark with respect to their categories.

Since you brought up cars, the real question is: would you rather drive a Volkswagen or a Chinese car, which are notorious for copying designs? Sure, you also mentioned Japanese cars such as Honda. Now, I did not rag on Japanese products. I'm a fan of them. Besides the Volkswagen, I own two Toyotas. You introduced oranges when we were talking about apples.
I didn't miss the point and its not only my opinion. I have a family member who works for a VW dealership. New cars are constantly coming in for things a new car shouldn't be coming in for. An ex GF returned her a brand new Jetta after 1 week of constant problems and issues and got a Nissan. I think the German quality reputation is riding on the back of the legendary quality of 1980s Mercedes Benzes. Just because its German doesn't mean its superior in quality and engineering to anything else. Anything that's made to be built to super low cost parameters to sell at a super low price is going to be questionable no matter what country its made in. Do you think a 50 dollar reel made in Germany is going to be any better than a 50 dollar reel made in China? Im not sure about Chinese cars but Ill take a Japanese car over a German car if I was buying for reliability.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by DammitKhoa » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:03 am

lol I too would buy a Japanese car over a German.. (and a German over Chinese). I guess our experience with VW is different. Anyways, 'nuff about cars, this is about bearings!

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Thor » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:05 am

"The Chinese would not stay in business long if their products did not measure up to international industrial standards. And they must be doing something right if just about every bearing company in the world is buying from them."

You made a huge assumption here. Much of the world could not care less whether a non-critical product measures up to international industrial standards. They put out a RFQ and buy from the low bidder, in this case, a Chinese manufacturer. That has NO bearing, pardon the pun, on doing anything right, just cheap. The world is buying from them because it is cheaper. This is your motivation as well. Cheap makes the world go round. Can you say Wal-Mart?

I have also tested bearings with a method that I trust and found dozens of bearings that must be returned. I do not see this as an issue when the price for this mass produced, zero precision, never inspected item is $15.00 per. Are the bearings I keep better than the bearings I returned? Absolutely. Do they make a difference? Only to me.

So you keep saving your money your way and I will do the same.

Let me just add, since you named Boca Bearings and since they are a sponsor of this forum, I believe you should ask them if their source of Orange Seals is in China. They may decline to answer but they should be afforded the opportunity to do so.

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Re: Top 3 bearings

Post by Cagey » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:37 am

Thor wrote:Let me just add, since you named Boca Bearings and since they are a sponsor of this forum, I believe you should ask them if their source of Orange Seals is in China. They may decline to answer but they should be afforded the opportunity to do so.
My questioning the source of Boca bearings has been discussed on this forum before though no one specifically said China, they did say probably not made in USA and from outside of USA:

http://forums.tackletour.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=45902

I am sure Boca would decline to reveal any source information as to do so would be to cut their own throat as the old saying goes. I just went and did some checking on Boca and they are not even a manufacturer of one ball bearing. Not one. They buy and resell.

I just read their articles of incorporation filed with the Dept of State of Florida which are freely accessible and readable online:

http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/Corpor ... ber=K55858

Under the heading of "purpose" of the Boca Bearing company it says this:

"This corporation is organized for the purpose of transacting any or all lawful business for which corporations may be incorporated under the laws of the state of Florida, including a nursery and private school business."

I don't read where their purpose is stated to manufacture anything, only to transact business, which I suppose could also include manufacturing, but I think it is clear they are not.

Online here is how Boca describes themselves, their company, and what they do:

"About Us:

Over 3000 different sizes and well over 2 million items in stock

Since 1987, one of our primary goals at the Boca Bearing Company has been to maintain the world's largest inventory of miniature bearings in all of the most popular metric and inch sizes. We also have an extensive inventory of special sizes and styles, including hybrids, phenolic, plastic caged and three piece thrust bearings. Currently, Boca Bearing Company has over 3000 different sizes and well over 2 million items in stock."

No where can I find online does Boca- or anyone else say "Boca is a manufacturer of ball bearings." No where. But everywhere I look online it says they are a "supplier" of ball bearings.

End of story? Maybe, maybe not.

I just found this:

"No one carries more unique bearing sizes than Boca Bearings. If you are having a hard time finding the size or style that you are looking for however, Boca’s new Custom Bearing program can build almost any size bearing to order, with many combinations of seals, shields, retainers and other features. Contact us direct for more information about our Custom Bearing program."

It does not say they will make or manufacture you a ball bearing, it only says they will assemble or build one for you. Still, I don't think they manufactured 3000 different bearing sizes. So out of 2 million items in stock and 3,000 different sizes, where do you think Boca buys the majority of what they sell?

And when you look around the world one country really stands out.

And when you look at that Chinese ball bearing manufacturer presently selling what appears to be the exact same product to a "T" down to the specs and even in the same colors... I just put 1 and 1 together and came up with China, but no offense was meant to Boca. I wish them all the best, but I am not paying their price unless I can find no other source for that particular bearing and that is just the way it is.

In over 30 years of repairing and modifying my own reels and those of friends, I have purchased Boca bearings only one time out of convenience of delivery only. I did not want to wait on China's lengthy delivery. Boca had them to me in less than 2 or 3 days and I paid for it too. But only once.

Just found an online connection between Boca bearings being made and sourced in China:

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/boca-bearing-china.html

"Free Sample Boca Bearing Made In China"

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/F ... 49552.html

FOB Price:
US $0.1 - 50 / Set Get Latest Price
Min.Order Quantity:
100 Set/Sets
Supply Ability:
18000 Set/Sets per Month
Port:
Qingdao Shanghai - China.
Last edited by Cagey on Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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