Dual Pinion Bearing Support

[Tony9]

Just curious...Is this a feature only found on Daiwa and Shimano low profiles? If so, I wonder why more manufacturers don't add this feature.

[reznor]

Haibo and others chinese reels have double bb pinion support.l'd wish abu make a bc w this feature...

[Hulkster]

is a double bearing supported pinion what shimano calls "X ship"?

[DirtyD64]

Haibo and others chinese reels have double bb pinion support.l'd wish abu make a bc w this feature...

I thought all Abu Revo reels with the Infini 2 spool had this??? I know they have one under the tension cap and am pretty sure there is another one on the pinion to keep it aligned. I know my girlfriend's 1st generation Premier30 has the same dual bearings my Stradic does, and an extra bearing under the drag, technically it is like x-ship with 3 instead of two concerning spinning reels at least...

I still feel about 70 percent sure that Abu's version of free floating spool (Infini 2) requires by nature of the engineering, a dual supported pinion.

[ss30378]

Abu's, even the new revo's do not have any bearing on the pinion itself. The pinion has a little metal shaft that rides in the sideplate bearing and when the pinion engages the spool uses the spool bearing and spool shaft as its support point.

[steez_12]

is a double bearing supported pinion what shimano calls "X ship"?

Yep, that's what "X ship" refers to.

[DirtyD64]

Abu's, even the new revo's do not have any bearing on the pinion itself. The pinion has a little metal shaft that rides in the sideplate bearing and when the pinion engages the spool uses the spool bearing and spool shaft as its support point.

I wasn't sure, wish I could breakdown a reel to check it, my Revo Winch doesn't have the Infini 2 spool, it has a fully connected pinion that connects to the spool, same as Shimano or Lew's (or non-Free Floating spool Daiwas).

[reznor]

Check all abu's schematics.If you find a double bb pinion let me know

Abu's, even the new revo's do not have any bearing on the pinion itself. The pinion has a little metal shaft that rides in the sideplate bearing and when the pinion engages the spool uses the spool bearing and spool shaft as its support point.

I wasn't sure, wish I could breakdown a reel to check it, my Revo Winch doesn't have the Infini 2 spool, it has a fully connected pinion that connects to the spool, same as Shimano or Lew's (or non-Free Floating spool Daiwas).

[DirtyD64]

Check all abu's schematics.If you find a double bb pinion let me know

Abu's, even the new revo's do not have any bearing on the pinion itself. The pinion has a little metal shaft that rides in the sideplate bearing and when the pinion engages the spool uses the spool bearing and spool shaft as its support point.

I wasn't sure, wish I could breakdown a reel to check it, my Revo Winch doesn't have the Infini 2 spool, it has a fully connected pinion that connects to the spool, same as Shimano or Lew's (or non-Free Floating spool Daiwas).

Ok after studying Abu baitcasting pinions versus Shimano X-ship style, I discovered I am wrong and why I am wrong. The Infini 2 spool which is similar to Daiwa's free floating spool, it has a bearing on the spool (handle side) and there is another bearing under the tension knob. I figured by design the pinion was supported by the spool bearing, it does offer some support, but there is a small "T" shape that connects the spool to the pinion. So both bearings offer some support, but it doesn't offer the direct support that the full shaft pinion Shimano does. The Chronarch Ci4+ spool for example has no bearing attached and the "T" goes into the pinion which has 2 bearings holding it, rather than one on the spool and the other under the tension knob.

I hope I wasn't confusing with bad wording, so to simplify, the Shimano has 2 bearings holding a pinion in the sideplate and a full length shaft goes into it from the spool.
The Abu Infini 2 has a pinion with one bearing and a half shaft in the sideplate and the spool connects another half shaft to engage the pinion. The spool has a bearing behind the short half shaft's connection point, and during retrieve should offer some of x-ships properties, just not as much rigidity.

[Tony9]

I hope I wasn't confusing with bad wording, so to simplify, the Shimano has 2 bearings holding a pinion in the sideplate and a full length shaft goes into it from the spool.

Shimano X-ship has dual bearing support on both sides of the pinion. On the sideplate, the inner bearing supports the pinion, the outer is the spool bearing. The other pinion bearing is on the frame.

Shimano reels with "Silent Tune" (15 Aldebaran, 16 Metanium MgL) the spool bearing moves onto the spool shaft with a spring, leaving only 1 bearing on the sideplate for pinion support and 1 on the frame.

[DirtyD64]

Okay, so do Daiwa Zillion TWS or Revo Premier casting reels not have 3 full bearings on spool pinion sideplate??? I know they have one on the brake sideplate, I know they have one on the spool. If these reels have a bearing under/in the tension knob, then the pinion TECHNICALLY has dual support. I am pretty sure from reading schematics that they do.

It is different from x-ship somewhat, x-ship is slightly more direct and rigid, but the extra support is there and depending on tolerances could offer the same benefits.

[Tony9]

Most reels do have a bearing under the tension knob, but that does not mean it supports the pinion. Sometimes it's the spool bearing. In the case of the Zillion it does support the bearing.

For example the Tatula's pinion vs the Zillion TWS via the TackleTour comparison article. On the Tatula (left) there is no shaft to connect it to the sideplate bearing for support.


The other pinion bearing lives on the frame. The Tatula has only 1 bearing supporting the pinion gear. The Zillion also has this making 2 bearings supporting the pinion gear.


Regarding the Revo Premier, I was unable to find the schematics. I did pull up a higher end Abu. The Revo Beast. It has no bearing on the frame and no extended shaft on the pinion gear. It still has a bearing (#52) under the tension knob and it might serve as a spool bearing? I'm unsure of the purpose of this since it has a free floating spool design. It also has a retainer on the pinion shaft, which I haven't had experience with also.

[DirtyD64]

Most reels do have a bearing under the tension knob, but that does not mean it supports the pinion. Sometimes it's the spool bearing. In the case of the Zillion it does support the bearing.

For example the Tatula's pinion vs the Zillion TWS via the TackleTour comparison article. On the Tatula (left) there is no shaft to connect it to the sideplate bearing for support.


The other pinion bearing lives on the frame. The Tatula has only 1 bearing supporting the pinion gear. The Zillion also has this making 2 bearings supporting the pinion gear.


Regarding the Revo Premier, I was unable to find the schematics. I did pull up a higher end Abu. The Revo Beast. It has no bearing on the frame and no extended shaft on the pinion gear. It still has a bearing (#52) under the tension knob and it might serve as a spool bearing? I'm unsure of the purpose of this since it has a free floating spool design. It also has a retainer on the pinion shaft, which I haven't had experience with also.

This is an amazing reply and resolution... I had to check to MGX and few other Abu reels, the Revo Beast has less bearings than some, that I why I couldn't use my Revo Winch, I do think the Beast has Infini 2 (free floating style) spool.
I definitely see now with the Tatula comparison and the design of the Zillion pinion versus it. I think the Abu style at least from what I have researched is more like that of the Tatula, but instead of a full axle it is a half the links to the short half from the spool. So the Daiwa Zillion gets essentially the same support as X-ship and the Abu has some support but it is more one bearing on the pinion and one on the connecting shaft that goes through the pinion...???

[Tony9]

This is an amazing reply and resolution... I had to check to MGX and few other Abu reels, the Revo Beast has less bearings than some, that I why I couldn't use my Revo Winch, I do think the Beast has Infini 2 (free floating style) spool.
I definitely see now with the Tatula comparison and the design of the Zillion pinion versus it. I think the Abu style at least from what I have researched is more like that of the Tatula, but instead of a full axle it is a half the links to the short half from the spool. So the Daiwa Zillion gets essentially the same support as X-ship and the Abu has some support but it is more one bearing on the pinion and one on the connecting shaft that goes through the pinion...???

Looking at the Abu schematics again, it seems there is no bearing support for the pinion. The retainer on the pinion shaft is probably there so it does not fall through the pinion somehow. Daiwa's pinion shaft design is T shaped.

The Zillion does have the same support as X-ship. It should be reversed though as Daiwa had this design long before Shimano introduced X-ship around 2012 I believe. As far as I know, all Daiwa free floating spool design has dual supported pinion going back as far as the TD-X around 1998 (have not looked further back).

The Tatula design is more like a traditional pre X-ship Shimano design with one bearing support on the frame (Curado E/G series etc.) and a long shaft spool. I would say Abu's design is more like Daiwa, free floating spool, but just no pinion support.

BTW, I am no expert. I just got into bass fishing last year. I bought a Pflueger reel and was not happy with it and sold it. I did a lot of research looking at different manufacturer's schematics and Daiwa and Shimano looks to be the best designs.

[Bootytrain]

This is an amazing reply and resolution... I had to check to MGX and few other Abu reels, the Revo Beast has less bearings than some, that I why I couldn't use my Revo Winch, I do think the Beast has Infini 2 (free floating style) spool.
I definitely see now with the Tatula comparison and the design of the Zillion pinion versus it. I think the Abu style at least from what I have researched is more like that of the Tatula, but instead of a full axle it is a half the links to the short half from the spool. So the Daiwa Zillion gets essentially the same support as X-ship and the Abu has some support but it is more one bearing on the pinion and one on the connecting shaft that goes through the pinion...???

Looking at the Abu schematics again, it seems there is no bearing support for the pinion. The retainer on the pinion shaft is probably there so it does not fall through the pinion somehow. Daiwa's pinion shaft design is T shaped.

The Zillion does have the same support as X-ship. It should be reversed though as Daiwa had this design long before Shimano introduced X-ship around 2012 I believe. As far as I know, all Daiwa free floating spool design has dual supported pinion going back as far as the TD-X around 1998 (have not looked further back).

The Tatula design is more like a traditional pre X-ship Shimano design with one bearing support on the frame (Curado E/G series etc.) and a long shaft spool. I would say Abu's design is more like Daiwa, free floating spool, but just no pinion support.

BTW, I am no expert. I just got into bass fishing last year. I bought a Pflueger reel and was not happy with it and sold it. I did a lot of research looking at different manufacturer's schematics and Daiwa and Shimano looks to be the best designs.

If you have the long spool shaft passing through the pinion you can get away with one bearing because the shaft itself supports the pinion under load. I think with Daiwa they needed the double support on the free floating spools by necessity since there's no spool shaft passing through for support. Probably why the Tatula doesn't have dual bearings on the pinion(for now). Interestingly I looked at the schematic for my SS SV and it doesn't seem to have a 2 bearing pinion despite being a free floating spool.