Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by ShimanoFan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:35 pm

raindance wrote:Sorry for the late reply, here are some pictures. It has a weird braking system that just has 2 of those little plastic things for centrifugal.
To the OP, can you show some images of your braking mech?

I am looking at the schematic for the CU-100 dated 1992, and the Black Magnum dates back to 1987 and right on up to when this first curado was made which is comparable to your Scorpion- as has been noted...

These reels are transitional reels in the Shimano line. Before the black magnum, Shimano built reels with independent set plates that were removable from the reels. Today the mechs are built right on the frame itself.

And the Black Magnums which slightly predate yours and the CU-100 are the reels that fall in between the two eras of reel building- going from the old set plate designs into the newer frame based designs.

It should be noted Shimano quickly dropped the flippin' switch, the fighting star drag mech, (which I actually liked using and still use on my spinning reels) and they dropped the back reeling switch that turned off the AR.

When Shimano hit the B series and newer, these features from the set plate days were gone! Another change was the introduction of the AR bearing which the reels with set plates did not have.

My point is, these reels mentioned here, the scorpion 2000, the CU-100, and Black Magnums all share the same lineage and represent that fluid middle ground of a company making some major changes in reel design having to leave some features in the past while they moved on into the future. These reels were shimano's learning curve reels in a way.

Oh, back to the point of this comment... the OP said his scorpion has centrifugal brakes. I was curious about this because I have the CU-100 schematic open and it shows that Shimano made 2 versions of this reel which may or may not apply to your scorpion, but, sadly, this CU-100 has magnetic braking system and not a centrifugal braking system.

So there are possibly some more parts that won't swap out directly- unless maybe you can swap this reel back and forth between the two braking systems? A side plate and spool for one, and side plate and spool for the other kind of thing might be possible, not sure.

But if you can, please post an image of your braking system. If it is centrifugal, then it is not the same as the Curado CU-100.

Oh, and I was cross checking some of the parts between the CU-100 and old Black Magnum predecessor to the curado and found a couple of part numbers identical and matching and interchangeable, but only those so far. And they did change the flippin' switch setup to the point of where the side plate of CU-100 or your scorpion 2000 would be easier to remove and replace than the earlier version found in the Black Magnum.

Some cool old reels! I cut my teeth on those earlier Shimano reels of the 80's back when we use to actually polish inside of pinion gears and spool axles.
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by raindance » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm

Here are some pictures of the brake system and the plate opposite to it. Based on what I gathered this might have been made around the year I was born, so now I want to tinker with it more. :big grin:
6DB9B39A-4789-4908-8FAD-8DC41248AEC6.jpeg
6DB9B39A-4789-4908-8FAD-8DC41248AEC6.jpeg (29.32 KiB) Viewed 4176 times
C7EAFFD2-C1E0-4377-9261-3BBFD9EFF0FD.jpeg
C7EAFFD2-C1E0-4377-9261-3BBFD9EFF0FD.jpeg (31.8 KiB) Viewed 4176 times

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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by Slazmo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:37 pm

At least one brake block on there is right :lol:

Can make more out of thin / hollow carbon or fibreglass rod tips cut to length and can double stack them for more braking etc...

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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:21 am

Thanks for posting the images of your reel's brake mech. This now confirms that your reel is not made like the American counterpart reel. So even fewer parts are useable from it since the American version had magnetic brakes:

Image

Part # BNT 1202 = Magnet Retainer

I work for a shimano warranty repair facility and we can not get parts for JDM reels. And this is a good example of why that is...

Your reel appears to be in great shape and with good regular maintenance should last you for many more years to come.
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:30 am

If you can find one of those black and silver Bantams (very hard to find), go ahead and purchase one. It will be good to have for the parts under the crank side plate, which should all swap out. Yes, the brakes are different, but thats no big deal. As a matter of fact, you may even be able to swap all that stuff over as well and convert it if you wanted. Personally, Ive never done it, and would rather have the centrifugal style myself that comes with the Scorpion. As far as the brake blocks, you might be able to still purchase some from Shimano as they seem to be a VBS style. You wont be able to get the clear and grey (those were JDM only), but you can still get the red and green, and they will serve you just fine. Enjoy.
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:25 am

I was thinking about this last night...

Your reel could actually be the reel of the transition from the old into the new, or from old set plate reels into our modern style built off the frame eliminating the set plates.

But what is interesting is the flow of lineage... from set plates into frame based in the Black Magnums- also a failed experiment in graphite frames and parts which was dropped as were the magnets in braking. So from set plate reels of the 80's to Black Magnums frame based mechs, then to curado CU-100, the silver and black reel LMG pointed out, but it still had a flippin' switch and magnets!

And then the Scorpion of the OP here shows it to be the next step in Shimano reel development by eliminating the magnetic braking system and employing a 2 brake shoe centrifugal braking system instead.

What Shimano came out with next was the green bean B series Curado line which had now permanently eliminated the flippin' switch, and eliminated the magnetic braking permanently, and now with 6 brake shoes instead of 2. The reel was stretched out and shape changed. The thumb screws were eliminated.

My point is, your Scorpion reel here fits in between the CU-100 and the later green bean CU-100B.

Your reel shows the historic point in Shimano reel development of precisely when they dropped the magnets and went centrifugal ever since! Your reel is that epiphany aha moment that changed the game within Shimano that turned the corner into the basic reel design used by just about all brands to this day.
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:16 am

It would be nice to see an entire thread of photos of this reel and all of its parts.

Another major change Shimano made right after having made your reel, was to install an AR bearing.

If your Scorpion reel is built like the CU-100 on the other side of the reel, then according to the schematic, the CU-100 and possibly your reel does not have an AR bearing!

First 2 images from the CU-100, U.S. counterpart reel "coinciding" in time period.

Part # BNT 1108 is a ball bearing holder, which is part # 807 shown below... no AR bearing. This reel predates it.
Image

Instead, look at parts # BNT 1128, 1129, 612, 1120, 1121, and 1122. This is the AR that predates the B series AR bearing. So all of these parts were eliminated in the very next reel shimano made along these lines...
BNT 612: AR pawl pin A
BNT1120: AR ratchet
BNT1121: AR pawl spring B
BNT1122: AR pawl spring A
BNT1128: AR pawl pin B
BNT1129: AR pawl
Image

I added an image here of the Curado CU-200B which shows the change over to the AR bearing which is BNT 1207 shown below. Shimano would later on in the E series Curado line bring back the use of an additional AR pawl because of how Americans used the reels they made called for it to be brought back- even though many owners would go on to remove it from their own reels.
Image

To the OP, your reel is kind of historic in terms of where it fits in the Shimano lineage of reel development.

What I would like to see from your reel is if it has the newer AR or older AR.

To me this is kind of a big deal for reels that I would use. I prefer the AR bearing reels and tend to avoid reels without it. I have even gone so far as to retro fit AR bearings into older reels built without one.

So keep in mind, parts for your reel will be very scarce, so wearing down of the AR pawls in your reel could be a point of concern. But if your reel has the AR bearing along with the centrifugal brake advancement, that would be even better.

Cool reel. I will have to dig out my Shimano book and see if any of these reels were included. The old guy who wrote the book seemed to have a set plate reel obsession that narrowed the scope of his book to mostly pre 90's so these reels are right at his end of book cut off point, but I don't think JDM reels were included.

But out of curiosity more than anything else, what AR does your Scorpion have??? Would be a bonus if it has the AR bearing...
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by raindance » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:28 pm

Would that AR be here? I was hoping the drag washers could be interchangeable. My buddy is going to teach me this weekend on how to do basic maintenance and tear down of reels and we will practice with this. I will take detailed pictures.

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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:35 am

The roller clutch, or anti reverse bearing, would be sitting in the sideplate where the crankshaft comes through. The crankshaft is what the handle is fastened to. If no bearing, than you may have just the cog system.
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Re: Older Shimano Bantam Scorpion 2000, any info?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:35 pm

Hey raindance, I found something you might be interested in.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Shimano-S ... p&LH_BIN=1
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