Titanium Framed reels?

Reels are the hottest topic for TackleTour. Everyone wants to know what the latest and greatest is and how they compare to the old guard. What's the best for light stuff, or what's your suggestion for heavy cover. Do we really need different retrieve ratios? It's all in here.
fishes
Senior Angler
Senior Angler
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:38 pm

Titanium Framed reels?

Post by fishes » Sun May 03, 2020 4:45 pm

I was just thinking I haven't seen a titanium framed reel. Certainly the enthusiast community will pay essentially anything for a reel so why hasn't a manufacturer made a titanium framed reel, even in low volume?

tywithay
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2652
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by tywithay » Sun May 03, 2020 5:31 pm

Fortitude Fishing made some titanium spinning reels that were around $500. They're no longer in business. The machines necessary to make a baitcaster would cost millions of dollars, not including r&d, engineering, etc. There's no profit to be made.

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Sun May 03, 2020 6:24 pm

They can print in metal including Ti, but let's be fair it's totally unnecessary and the reels parts wouldn't last long enough to warrant their manufacturing and future benefits in parts and all that, let alone the cost and popularity of the reel.

Or even 3D CNC but yeh too exxy.

Titanium alloys that can be injection moulded yes, even aluminium alloys which exhibit better corrosion resistance and are lighter than these we've seen over the years aren't even worthwhile to make for the manufacturers.

Ti is only 30% lighter than steel also.

BUT there would be a huge market for the "reborn" reels if the manufacturers could only see past their own noses and to make a quick buck on these new reels, which don't seem to be getting much traction these days...

mark poulson
TT Pro Angler
TT Pro Angler
Posts: 2745
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am
Location: NorCal

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by mark poulson » Sun May 03, 2020 8:46 pm

Slazmo wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 6:24 pm
They can print in metal including Ti, but let's be fair it's totally unnecessary and the reels parts wouldn't last long enough to warrant their manufacturing and future benefits in parts and all that, let alone the cost and popularity of the reel.

Or even 3D CNC but yeh too exxy.

Titanium alloys that can be injection moulded yes, even aluminium alloys which exhibit better corrosion resistance and are lighter than these we've seen over the years aren't even worthwhile to make for the manufacturers.

Ti is only 30% lighter than steel also.

BUT there would be a huge market for the "reborn" reels if the manufacturers could only see past their own noses and to make a quick buck on these new reels, which don't seem to be getting much traction these days...
If by reborn you mean producing older models again, I doubt they are equipped to do it. There have been so many manufacturing advances in the last 10 year alone, and probably the factories that made them aren't even around anymore.
When I asked my father-in-law, an aerospace engineer who actually worked on the Apollo program why NASA doesn't just build more Saturn V rockets, he said they don't even have the plans for them anymore.

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Sun May 03, 2020 10:19 pm

Or all the old Nazi's with the know how died out.

They can remake the old specs without trouble - it's just the push for this new stuff to stay relevant.

User avatar
LowRange
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4784
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:18 am

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by LowRange » Mon May 04, 2020 7:28 am

Daiwa can't even get their Malaysia factory to put grease on the gears.

User avatar
LgMouthGambler
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2529
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am
Location: S FL

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Mon May 04, 2020 11:00 am

LowRange wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:28 am
Daiwa can't even get their Malaysia factory to put grease on the gears.
:lol:
<")))><{

Revofisher
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:56 am

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Revofisher » Mon May 04, 2020 10:32 pm

yeah i hope they get the grease figured out. The new models will be promising though

1. daiwa tatula elite short cast model
2. daiwa tatula mid cast model
3. daiwa tatula smallmouth only reel

in all seriousness the titanium reel would be a small market i really don't see a manufacturer being profitable on making one although it would be very cool indeed.

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Tue May 05, 2020 12:19 am

Revofisher wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 10:32 pm
in all seriousness the titanium reel would be a small market i really don't see a manufacturer being profitable on making one although it would be very cool indeed.
Just imagine the tooling required and the finishing they'd need to get right for everything to fit. A super alloy like TiAl could work but like you said it would be such a niche market I doubt anyone would bare the cost unless it was a product like the Stella Millennium Edition all over again? Like Abu did with its 24K gold plated reels and the like.

Scandium alloys (Al20Li20Mg10Sc20Ti30) would be better but only where needed as main frames - I doubt Shimano, but Daiwa or the rest care about the finer details of overall durability / longevity past the current run of any such model. Otherwise the issue with Aluminium gears and MM would be addressed sooner.

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Tue May 05, 2020 3:22 am

Polyamide with reinforcing has been done to death. I mean most references to guns and all that yep agree, I think those applications where it stays true due to being bolted to and around a metallic object being the receiver body and the barrel etc (excuse my illiteracy with guns as Australia has a governmental hate of guns)... But plastic and its hybrids has its place in the world, I'm definitely not against it but its prolific use and acceptance of it for places where it shouldn't be.

Whereas when your trying to build a "strong" reel of said plastic with a reinforcement of carbon strands there is a fine line with tortional forces, effects of heat / chemical / fatigue and other, relative to the design capability of the company, cost relevance to the model and wear and tear of the tooling etc I guess are all discussed at high levels of the business - engineers are expected to work to a dollar and a business direction also.

Then you have some 200lb gorilla cranking manically on it - all well above its normal design parameters. It's normal it seems why near every Chronarch Ci4 has swallowed its tongue and regressed into distant memories never to be spoken of again - the new Chronarch G who knows?.

Aluminium alloy frames and gear plates should be a minimum - Ci4+ side plates aren't a good idea especially with trying to keep things straight and aligned.

Okuma years ago did a very public study on their anti corrosion alloys and the extra processes they did to keep reels from succumbing and to salt / corrosion effects. This was a good move - except for Okuma just being that brand that no-one really wants to use it seems.

Fine line between everything considered...

User avatar
LowRange
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4784
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:18 am

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by LowRange » Tue May 05, 2020 11:18 am

ska4fun wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:04 am
Slazmo wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:22 am
Polyamide with reinforcing has been done to death. I mean most references to guns and all that yep agree, I think those applications where it stays true due to being bolted to and around a metallic object being the receiver body and the barrel etc (excuse my illiteracy with guns as Australia has a governmental hate of guns)... But plastic and its hybrids has its place in the world, I'm definitely not against it but its prolific use and acceptance of it for places where it shouldn't be.

Whereas when your trying to build a "strong" reel of said plastic with a reinforcement of carbon strands there is a fine line with tortional forces, effects of heat / chemical / fatigue and other, relative to the design capability of the company, cost relevance to the model and wear and tear of the tooling etc I guess are all discussed at high levels of the business - engineers are expected to work to a dollar and a business direction also.

Then you have some 200lb gorilla cranking manically on it - all well above its normal design parameters. It's normal it seems why near every Chronarch Ci4 has swallowed its tongue and regressed into distant memories never to be spoken of again - the new Chronarch G who knows?.

Aluminium alloy frames and gear plates should be a minimum - Ci4+ side plates aren't a good idea especially with trying to keep things straight and aligned.

Okuma years ago did a very public study on their anti corrosion alloys and the extra processes they did to keep reels from succumbing and to salt / corrosion effects. This was a good move - except for Okuma just being that brand that no-one really wants to use it seems.

Fine line between everything considered...
Even in the firearms industry every single change on frame and internals, involving swapping metal for plastics, created a tolerance reduction, expressed in the firearm datasheet.

Concerning the Ci4 Chronarch, shimano cheap building quality, a corporate policy, is to be blamed.

Okuma don't get the attention it deserves. Their products are of very good value for money. I brought a Lexa 400hd just because I couldn't finda a lefty Komodo.
Plastic parts on firearms is limited to grips and accessories is it? No one is making plastic actions or barrels. Plastic drag stars and side plates are fine but I want my frame to be metal at the very least. I would prefer a metal drag star and dual side plates just to make the reel feel nice, solid and high end.

User avatar
austin15
Angler
Angler
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: montgomery, Al

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by austin15 » Tue May 05, 2020 11:57 am

Titanium is actually heavier than aluminum so would probably not be a good choice for frame or side plates. It would really only be beneficial if you replace the steel parts with titanium. such as the spool shaft, hardware, level wind and clutch components, etc. Even then the difference would probably be negligible, as durability may become an issue because of the poor friction and wear properties of Ti.

Houndfish
Platinum Angler
Platinum Angler
Posts: 946
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:57 pm
Location: Western Shore MD

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Houndfish » Tue May 05, 2020 1:42 pm

LowRange wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:18 am
Plastic parts on firearms is limited to grips and accessories is it? No one is making plastic actions or barrels. Plastic drag stars and side plates are fine but I want my frame to be metal at the very least. I would prefer a metal drag star and dual side plates just to make the reel feel nice, solid and high end.
No, polymer framed handguns have metal rails embedded in the plastic that interface with the metal slide. It's not taking a ton of direct force but it's still impressive the roundcounts and heat they can withstand. People lost their minds about it when they first started becoming a market force and there a a million "glock 17 torture tests" if you want to read up on it.

I like metal side plates a lot of the time but in the winter I want plastic 100% of the time. If I had a garage to pre-heat my reels in I might feel different.

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Tue May 05, 2020 4:40 pm

Am I the only person when out on a boat to cover my reels when in the rack with a towel? :lol:

Slazmo
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 11:43 pm
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland. Australia

Re: Titanium Framed reels?

Post by Slazmo » Tue May 05, 2020 7:59 pm

Just picked up a near new Curado I-PG, worm gear sounds scratchy and as mentioned full of dust, silt / sand. Will be onto that soon, clean it all up and to the shelf it goes.

Post Reply