Magforce-Z induction activation revolutions?

[LowRange]

To make it more simple. You can turn the inductor on an SV spool and it will extend. The Air Brake ramps are making the inductor extend due to the rotation provided by the hand. The magnets are doing the same thing in the reel as your hand.

[aavery2]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

[LowRange]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

I'm sure it can activate without the magnets present at a high enough rpm but the presence and intensity of the magnetic field allows them to extend at very low spools speeds where there is very small centrifugal force at work.

I'll ask again, do you not have any SV spools? This is very easy to verify for yourself in seconds. You can set the dial to max and flick the spool and hear the inductor extend and seat. As you scroll down on the dial you have to flick it harder and harder to get it hear the inductor. As you get low on the dial its becomes impossible to flick the spool hard enough to hear the inductor. With the ported Ray's spools you can actually see the the two white ramps through the porting on the spool as the spool spins. A hard flick at high mag dial will allow you to catch a glimpse of the inductor side Air Brake ramp sliding back and mating to the spool side ramp. With the Ray's it is harder to observe due to the thinner and inductor and stiffer spring. They extend at higher spool speeds and retract more quickly.

[LowRange]

Think of it this way. You can turn the inductor on an SV spool by hand the the two ramps extend the inductor. Your hand isn't pulling the inductor outwards and the inductor is not attracted to your hand yet your hand is making it extend. Same with the magnets once in the reel.

[aavery2]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

I'm sure it can activate without the magnets present at a high enough rpm but the presence and intensity of the magnetic field allows them to extend at very low spools speeds where there is very small centrifugal force at work.

Sorry but we will have to disagree here, for a magnet to have an attractive force on the extension of the inductor it is going to have to act on something that is also magnetic, iron, nickel, cobalt. Aluminum is not magnetic and that is what your inductor is made from. As far as I can tell there is not a magnetic part in an SV spool assembly. I have showed you pictures of how this spool works right from Daiwa, if you have any evidence other than opinion please share it so we can all be he wiser.

[LowRange]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

I'm sure it can activate without the magnets present at a high enough rpm but the presence and intensity of the magnetic field allows them to extend at very low spools speeds where there is very small centrifugal force at work.

Sorry but we will have to disagree here, for a magnet to have an attractive force on the extension of the inductor it is going to have to act on something that is also magnetic, iron, nickel, cobalt. Aluminum is not magnetic and that is what your inductor is made from. As far as I can tell there is not a magnetic part in an SV spool assembly. I have showed you pictures of how this spool works right from Daiwa, if you have any evidence other than opinion please share it so we can all be he wiser.

It is not an attractive force. The magnets are not pulling the inductor into the magnets. Let me clarify that I'm not making that argument here. The Air Brake ramps are extending the inductor when the inductor is twisted. The magnets are twisting the inductor as the spool rotates the same way your hand is able to twist the inductor and make it extend.

Go pop an SV spool out of a reel if you have one. You can place your finders lightly over the inductor so that they just drag over it and as you rotate the spool with your other hand the friction between the inductor and your fingers will cause the inductor to rotate and extend outwards. It's a pretty simple and slick way of extending the inductor and can extend at incredibly low spools speeds at high mag dial settings. This is why they skip so darn well.

To give a better explanation of the mechanics of Air Brake: what is happening is that the inductor wants to rotate more slowly than the spool because it is in the presence of the magnetic field and because it is free to rotate slower than the spool for that 1/4 turn of the inductor that the Air Brake ramps allow for so it does so and the Air Brake ramps are shaped in such as way as to translate that rotational inductor movement into linear movement.

[hoohoorjoo]

The sudden revolution of the spool at the beginning of the cast is what extends the rotor on the Airbrake and SV spools. The rotor and spool are static before the cast. As the spool starts up, the rotor resists the start-up rotation of the spool and instead rides up the ramp on the spool. This forces the rotor out way before the spool reaches maximum rpm's(unlike mag-z and mag-v rotors, which extend a little later after spool start-up). However, the extension of the rotor is purely centrifugal on all the moving inductor Magforce spools, and the retraction of the rotor is purely mechanical, accomplished by the spring once the centrifugal force lessens as the spool slows. The magnets are there to regulate the speed of the spool once it is extended into the magnet gap, nothing more. The magnets dont touch the rotor, the way fingers would as they lightly rub the rotor while you turn the spool. This is a manual manipulation to get the rotor to extend, but doesn't happen when you cast. No magnetic resistance causes the rotor to extend. Actually, the counter-emf acts with opposite force as spool rotation occurs, which would technically make the rotor harder to extend, if this were happening .

[aavery2]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

I'm sure it can activate without the magnets present at a high enough rpm but the presence and intensity of the magnetic field allows them to extend at very low spools speeds where there is very small centrifugal force at work.

Sorry but we will have to disagree here, for a magnet to have an attractive force on the extension of the inductor it is going to have to act on something that is also magnetic, iron, nickel, cobalt. Aluminum is not magnetic and that is what your inductor is made from. As far as I can tell there is not a magnetic part in an SV spool assembly. I have showed you pictures of how this spool works right from Daiwa, if you have any evidence other than opinion please share it so we can all be he wiser.

It is not an attractive force. The magnets are not pulling the inductor into the magnets. Let me clarify that I'm not making that argument here. The Air Brake ramps are extending the inductor when the inductor is twisted. The magnets are twisting the inductor as the spool rotates the same way your hand is able to twist the inductor and make it extend.

Go pop an SV spool out of a reel if you have one. You can place your finders lightly over the inductor so that they just drag over it and as you rotate the spool with your other hand the friction between the inductor and your fingers will cause the inductor to rotate and extend outwards. It's a pretty simple and slick way of extending the inductor and can extend at incredibly low spools speeds at high mag dial settings. This is why they skip so darn well.

To give a better explanation of the mechanics of Air Brake, what is happening is that the inductor wants to rotate more slowly than the spool because it is in the presence of the magnetic field and because it is free to rotate slower than the spool for that 1/4 turn of the inductor that the Air Brake ramps allow for it does so and the Air Brake ramps are shaped in such as way as to translate that rotation inductor movement into linear movement.

If you insist.

[LowRange]

The sudden revolution of the spool at the beginning of the cast is what extends the rotor on the Airbrake and SV spools. The rotor and spool are static before the cast. As the spool starts up, the rotor resists the start-up rotation of the spool and instead rides up the ramp on the spool. This forces the rotor out way before the spool reaches maximum rpm's(unlike mag-z and mag-v rotors, which extend a little later after spool start-up).

This is correct but it is the magnetic field that is causing the inductor to resist the rotation of the spool. The SV spool inductors are long and sit quite a ways into the magnetic rings when in the seated position. The greater the intensity of the magnetic field the more readily the inductor extends with these spools. it acts exactly as if you where dragging you finders over the inductor as the spool rotates. What your finger tips are doing to the inductor is functionally the same as what the magnetic field is doing to the inductor. The inductor wants to rotate more slowly than the spool due to its interaction with the magnetic field and because the Air Brake allows for a 1/4 turn rotation of the inducuctor and translates this rotation into linear moment the inductor extends.

[LowRange]

This image is from Daiwa on the operation of Air Brakes (SV)




If you follow this link half way down the page you will see an SV spool in a dremel spinning with the inductor fully extending and retracting using only centrifugal force. Magnets do not appear to be needed for this system to operate just as Z and V.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

I'm sure it can activate without the magnets present at a high enough rpm but the presence and intensity of the magnetic field allows them to extend at very low spools speeds where there is very small centrifugal force at work.

Sorry but we will have to disagree here, for a magnet to have an attractive force on the extension of the inductor it is going to have to act on something that is also magnetic, iron, nickel, cobalt. Aluminum is not magnetic and that is what your inductor is made from. As far as I can tell there is not a magnetic part in an SV spool assembly. I have showed you pictures of how this spool works right from Daiwa, if you have any evidence other than opinion please share it so we can all be he wiser.

It is not an attractive force. The magnets are not pulling the inductor into the magnets. Let me clarify that I'm not making that argument here. The Air Brake ramps are extending the inductor when the inductor is twisted. The magnets are twisting the inductor as the spool rotates the same way your hand is able to twist the inductor and make it extend.

Go pop an SV spool out of a reel if you have one. You can place your finders lightly over the inductor so that they just drag over it and as you rotate the spool with your other hand the friction between the inductor and your fingers will cause the inductor to rotate and extend outwards. It's a pretty simple and slick way of extending the inductor and can extend at incredibly low spools speeds at high mag dial settings. This is why they skip so darn well.

To give a better explanation of the mechanics of Air Brake, what is happening is that the inductor wants to rotate more slowly than the spool because it is in the presence of the magnetic field and because it is free to rotate slower than the spool for that 1/4 turn of the inductor that the Air Brake ramps allow for it does so and the Air Brake ramps are shaped in such as way as to translate that rotation inductor movement into linear movement.

If you insist.

Go buy an SV spool. You will see for yourself and they are great skipping machines. I prefer my "old" Magforce V and Z spools for distance through.

[aavery2]

[/quote]
Go buy an SV spool. You will see for yourself and they are great skipping machines. I prefer my "old" Magforce V and Z spools for distance through.
[/quote]

I own several

[LowRange]

Go buy an SV spool. You will see for yourself and they are great skipping machines. I prefer my "old" Magforce V and Z spools for distance through.
[/quote]

I own several
[/quote]

Then try this. I just did this with my SS SV105. Place the paling side of reel up to your ear and flick the spool at max brake and at zero. At max there is a very pronounced soft thunk sound of the inductor seating that is not heard at o mag brake setting. For me it is heard a fraction of a second after I flick the spool.

[aavery2]

Also with air brake it is not at the inductor is attracted to the magnets but that the force acting upon the inductor makes the two ramps slide away from each other and one ramp is free to move while the other is fixed in place. This causes the inductor to extend.

Last post for me as we are getting nowhere. Centrifigual force is what moves the ramps and causes the inductor to extend. I showed you a video of this. Remember the spool in the dremel, no magnets anywhere but yet the inductor extended.

Think we are deadlocked my friend, might take a look at the post Tim made.

[aavery2]

Go buy an SV spool. You will see for yourself and they are great skipping machines. I prefer my "old" Magforce V and Z spools for distance through.

I own several
[/quote]

Then try this. I just did this with my SS SV105. Place the paling side of reel up to your ear and flick the spool at max brake and at zero. At max there is a very pronounced soft thunk sound of the inductor seating that is not heard at o mag brake setting. For me it is heard a fraction of a second after I flick the spool.
[/quote]

OK, this is my last, last post LOL. I wanted to try this to see if I could duplicate what you are experiencing. I used my Sol with an SV spool and my Alphas SV105, adjusted the brakes, placed them to my ear and spun the spool but could not hear what it is that you are speaking of. I wonder if what you are hearing is the inductor being pulled back into place by the springs. When you spin the spool by finger the speed of the spool initially produces enough centrifugal force to extend the inductor but because you spun the spool by hand the speed quickly dies and the inductor is pulled back to its starting position by spring pressure. The difference between 0 -10 is just spool speed and time the inductor stays extended.

I did have a question about what you mean by the thunk sound of the inductor seating. Where do you feel the extended inductor seats.

[LowRange]

Also with air brake it is not at the inductor is attracted to the magnets but that the force acting upon the inductor makes the two ramps slide away from each other and one ramp is free to move while the other is fixed in place. This causes the inductor to extend.

Last post for me as we are getting nowhere. Centrifigual force is what moves the ramps and causes the inductor to extend. I showed you a video of this. Remember the spool in the dremel, no magnets anywhere but yet the inductor extended.

Think we are deadlocked my friend, might take a look at the post Tim made.

You seem to be hung up on that video. Just because the inductor will extend without the presence of magnets while hooked up to a dremel spinning at thousands of RPM does not mean that is the primary means of operation. I'm not supersized at all that if you spin one fast enough that the inductor will extend. This does not mean that the interaction of the inductor and magnetic field has no effect on the extension of the inductor with Air Brake spools however this is true for Z and V. A simple test for this is to observe the behavior of one in a reel at various mag dial settings. Sure enough the inductor extends readily at high mag dial and does not do so at low mag dial settings. An ear, an SV spool and a reel is all that is required to perform this test.

Furthermore you can replicate the interaction of the magnetic field on the inductor yourself without the spool being in the reel by simply dragging your finger tips over the inductor with one hand as the spool is rotated with the other. Sure enough the inductor extends linearly from this rational moment without any pulling movement being provided by either hand.

These are very simple tests that anyone with an SV spool can do. Have you not done these tests yourself? It seems to me like you saw that video and decided that is all there is to it and the inductor must only extend from centrifugal forces alone and have tuned out any counter arguments.