Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

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freelancer27
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Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by freelancer27 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:17 pm

Hi all,

Hope you can help me with the diagnosis here.

I am experiencing a specific sound/noise that all of my high end Shimanos (2019 Antares 70, 2018 Calcutta Conquest 401, 2021 Calcutta Conquest 201HG, 2021 Calcutta Conquest 101HG) experience.

While the reels are genuinely smooth, I can not help but feel annoyed by this sound that I experience on the retrieve.

The sound seems to come from the right hand side of the reel, but I can not 100% confidently allocate it. To me it sounds like metal is rubbing on metal. My first was that this must be the spool bearings. So I added some oil. This did not solve the problem.

Today at the lake I tried to take a video. Please have a look here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

I really love these reels, but it is just a bit annoying when my Steez/Morethans/Zillions do not make any noise.


Would appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on the mater.

Thanks fellas!

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LowRange
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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by LowRange » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:33 pm

Spounds like gear noise. Clean and grease the gears. If the problem persists then replace the gears. Expect to do this more than once. Otherwise just live with it.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by freelancer27 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:44 pm

Well the two Conquests are not even a month old, so i dont see how it could be the gears.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:09 pm

freelancer27 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:44 pm
Well the two Conquests are not even a month old, so i dont see how it could be the gears.
I know a guy whose conquest gears went bad after 1 outing. The pinion bearing was bad out of the box and that let the 2 gears get out of sorts with each other. Those MM gears are VERY intolerant of anything that's not precisely in alignment.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by freelancer27 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:45 pm

hoohoorjoo wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:09 pm
freelancer27 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:44 pm
Well the two Conquests are not even a month old, so i dont see how it could be the gears.
I know a guy whose conquest gears went bad after 1 outing. The pinion bearing was bad out of the box and that let the 2 gears get out of sorts with each other. Those MM gears are VERY intolerant of anything that's not precisely in alignment.
Dang!

Well, i got all of these reels from Japan. I should have opened them up and oilred the bearings right away.
Will do so tomorrow and see if it helps.

If not, who knows a good reel guru? ;-)

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by Fishing4Fun » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:29 am

Switch to KastKing?

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by ss30378 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 am

That sounds like the MM gear buzz i always seem to get rapidly with my Shimanos. Had 3 new mets do that to me very quickly and I had to replace the gearset before I sold them.

I've heard 2 plausible theories as to what's going on, the inner (closest to the spool) pinion bearing and the drag pressure place which is a very soft aluminum on the mets getting deformed and causing misalignment in the gears. Either way I agree it shouldn't be happening on the new high end reels.

Spanky over at TTT has been replacing the pinion bearings and getting the smoothness to return for a lot of the mets so that may be the issue and there's another thread here on showing the deformity of the soft aluminum met pressure plate. In comparison the bantams which use the exact same gearset as the new metanium has held up much better long term than the mets but uses a much stouter steel pressure plate.

Regardless I think this is an issue shimano needs to address.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by LowRange » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:16 am

Not defending Shimano here but as bass anglers we do things that are sort of out of place compared to anglers of other species. Locking down the drag and winding the reel under load winching in the fish are two things that are common practice and can do a number on the pinion and main gear.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by CFDoc » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am

I have a bunch of 2020 Mets and some do it and some don't.

For the ones that do make the noise, I have bought every bearing possible. This includes stock Shimano bearings, Fast Eddy, Boca, and ZPI of all types. It will drive you insane trying to figure it out.

I have also taken gears out of the reels that buzz and compared them to a brand new gear set directly from Shimano. I looked at them under magnification of 50x. I could not find a single deformity in any gear set.

I am the one that noticed the deformed pressure plate that occurs in the Mets. I posted about it in the User Review portion of this website.

The poster above me, ss30378, and I have been PM'ing about this topic for a long time now. It is maddening to say the least.

And I agree about my Daiwa's. Anytime I hear a buzz, I know I can replace a bearing and be right back to smooth/quiet as butter.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by Slazmo » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:07 pm

CFDoc wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am
The poster above me, ss30378, and I have been PM'ing about this topic for a long time now. It is maddening to say the least.
You've got a choice not to respond, but saying that openly is a piss poor form regardless.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by LowRange » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:15 pm

Slazmo wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:07 pm
CFDoc wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am
The poster above me, ss30378, and I have been PM'ing about this topic for a long time now. It is maddening to say the least.
You've got a choice not to respond, but saying that openly is a piss poor form regardless.
I was hoping you would chime in given your experience with this issue in particular. Still waiting.

Image

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by CFDoc » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Slazmo wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:07 pm
CFDoc wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am
The poster above me, ss30378, and I have been PM'ing about this topic for a long time now. It is maddening to say the least.
You've got a choice not to respond, but saying that openly is a piss poor form regardless.

He sent me a free gear set to run some tests with. That’s basically ‘had me at hello’ type behavior.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by slipperybob » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:07 pm

The one thing that always gets me is the more pronounce high pitch brake whirls. Doesn't bother me one bit while I'm out there fishing and it's windy and raining, but when it's the dead first light of the morning and ffffFFFFFFFFFEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHH! LOL. But when followed by a Kersplash! Fish On!!!! It's all good. It's a fish whistle. :lol:
slip bobbing is the laziest way to fish

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by SSS » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:12 pm

Sounds to me like very little to no grease on the micro module gears.

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Re: Specific noise with my high end Shimanos

Post by ss30378 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:32 pm

Slazmo wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:07 pm
CFDoc wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am
The poster above me, ss30378, and I have been PM'ing about this topic for a long time now. It is maddening to say the least.
You've got a choice not to respond, but saying that openly is a piss poor form regardless.
I think you read that wrong, we've been messaging back and forth trying to find the root cause of the issue which is maddening, not that I've been maddening to him (well I hope not anyways... :D)

From what's been discussed so far looking at gears under a microscope didn't reveal much of significance. Bearing swaps seem to work for some but not others, there's been some issues with the met pressure plate getting deformed a bit but the issues aren't limited to the met, like in this case a conquest so what is the issue(s)?

Could the material or hardness of the gears be an issue? Bearings? Frame or side plate misalignment? Different grease needed? I had 3 new Mets go buzzy very fast, all were the XG model, are the lower speed reels lasting longer? Are the MM gears just too sensitive to movement/misalignment to expect longevity in a fishing reel?

Daiwa ran MM type gears in the newest Ryoga that's been it, now they went a different route of redesigning normal sized teeth for their gears. Did Daiwa find issues with the MM design or just decide to go another route? I really like the performance and feel of the new shimano reels I just want them to stay out of the box smooth for longer than 1 trip. I've tried different grease and lubes but who knows how long my last 2 MM geared reels will stay smooth?

But hey at least Shimano gears are cheap compared to Daiwa...

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