Why is Shimano still using long spool shafts?

[SSS]

Light spools these days are great marketing. After all these years, Shimano is still using their long spool shafts. Is there a reason for this? By making them short like Daiwa's, it'll only lower the weight of the spool, which is a plus for everyone.

[dennis_rf]

My best guess is: difference is mostly on paper, not in real life. Due to the minimal diameter, the energy it takes to get the shaft spinning is probably not worth mentioning (vs. mass on the outer rim).
I do see however it takes some extra machining and hence cost vs. a plastic shaft. Didn’t stop Daiwa from charging big bucks for their spools tho.

Does Shimano even communicate the spool weights? I don’t think so. Also their performance isn’t just weight related. Take the MGL3 spools for example - no difference in weight to previous generations but noticeably quicker to accelerate. I have reels from competitors with lighter overall spools that accelerate less quickly and freely. And to me, that’s what matters in the end.
I do get your point though that just for marketing headlines, it would be good to communicate… if it’s a competitive weight. Maybe they don’t want to go in there because they know better?

[a1712]

How much does the weight in the center of the turn radius actually affect cast distance or spool start up? Brian.

[SSS]

My best guess is: difference is mostly on paper, not in real life. Due to the minimal diameter, the energy it takes to get the shaft spinning is probably not worth mentioning (vs. mass on the outer rim).
I do see however it takes some extra machining and hence cost vs. a plastic shaft. Didn’t stop Daiwa from charging big bucks for their spools tho.

Does Shimano even communicate the spool weights? I don’t think so. Also their performance isn’t just weight related. Take the MGL3 spools for example - no difference in weight to previous generations but noticeably quicker to accelerate. I have reels from competitors with lighter overall spools that accelerate less quickly and freely. And to me, that’s what matters in the end.
I do get your point though that just for marketing headlines, it would be good to communicate… if it’s a competitive weight. Maybe they don’t want to go in there because they know better?

For sure, but the lowest the spool weights in grams, the better it is for marketing. For this reason alone, i don't see why they aren't going the daiwa route.

[dragon1]

How much does the weight in the center of the turn radius actually affect cast distance or spool start up? Brian.

Minimally if at all.

[Slazmo]

Stability is it not?

Spool to pinion stability and alignment.

[Shie]

Stability is it not?

Spool to pinion stability and alignment.

I thought this was the reason as well. Isn't this why some tout shimanos "smoother under load" than the daiwas with short shafts?

[Slazmo]

If you look at the pinion and the shaft when engaged it's a small surface area - but I guess it has its place for alignment. When the clutch is depressed there is a certain amount of bias between the pinion and the shaft, hence why it's notable to use a high quality low viscosity oil on the shaft when it goes through the pinion - and on the pinion and the yolk - otherwise will act as a viscous clutch of sorts.

[hoohoorjoo]

Stability is it not?

Spool to pinion stability and alignment.

Daiwa addressed that ages ago with the upper and lower pinion bearings . Shimano recently followed suit with a lower pinion bearing on some of their reels, right?

[Slazmo]

Depending on the model, some reels have had the lower (bigger lower bearing) pinion support since 2004+, some had a bushing in there permanently from memory if you go Bantam era.

The top end (smaller upper bearing) came out a lot later from memory the Chronarch Ci4+ circa timeline.

But that upper bearing aside, I've got some ancient SG and earlier Bantams that are smooth as and had a hard life pre my ownership, and they were rudimentary reels alike Ambassadeurs - stick and rudder internally.

[zalan]

Stability is it not?

Spool to pinion stability and alignment.

This is my take as well and I trust the long spool shaft reels more than the short ones for that reason.

Spool shaft is in the center of the spool, the weight there won't have big effect on the cast imho.

[dennis_rf]

Alignment and support makes sense for reels with infinity drive, but on the Metanium parts you see in the picture I took measurements of, there’s no way the pinion supports/touches the spool shaft in its entire length, only right at the little shoulder section I’ve marked, there’s only a 0.06mm difference in diameters. Anything else has too much gap.

ID Pinion: 3.03mm
OD Shaft: 2.61mm
OD Shaft shoulder: 2.97mm
OD Shaft Pin part: 4.96mm
ID Pinion Pin part: 5.32mm

This is obviously not existent in a let’s say Alphas SV TW but still the alphas doesn’t develop the buzzy feeling over time. So that little bit of Metanium support there isn’t adding up to anything I’d say.

[dragon1]

Alignment and support makes sense for reels with infinity drive, but on the Metanium parts you see in the picture I took measurements of, there’s no way the pinion supports/touches the spool shaft in its entire length, only right at the little shoulder section I’ve marked, there’s only a 0.03mm difference in diameters. Anything else has too much gap.

ID Pinion: 3.03mm
OD Shaft: 2.61mm
OD Shaft shoulder: 2.97mm
OD Shaft Pin part: 4.96mm
ID Pinion Pin part: 5.32mm

This is obviously not existent in a let’s say Alphas SV TW but still the alphas doesn’t develop the buzzy feeling over time. So that little bit of Metanium support there isn’t adding up to anything I’d say.

Muy excelente...thanks for sharing.

[Slazmo]

Finally braved the morning and rose some mental stamina - feeling really crook today...

Here's some of the comparisons from the Curado lineage.

Top left - Curado / B
Top right - Curado D
Left - Curado E
Right - Curado G
Left - Curado I
Right - Curado K

I could keep going with JDM offerings but it shows pre to current lines with the evolution of the pinion support bearing on the big and and then top end.

Edit: And at the end of that TT won't allow me to upload pictures - unable to identify url...

So here's a link https://www.instagram.com/p/CowNNXqyWFM ... MyMTA2M2Y=