Anyone else suffer new fluorocarbon problems last year?

[trent_s]

First off please no trolling...I'm not here to debate the validity of fluoro's claim to be invisible, abrasion resistant etc...

I fish a lot of clear lakes and have many times put a hurting on fishing partners fishing the same lures (usually jigs), who aren't using fluoro, so I do think there's some validity to the invisibility claim (how much is tough to say), that's why I've used fluoro for the past 8 years (and the fact it sinks faster and is more sensitive doesn't hurt). I started with Seaguar and then Sniper....both were good for about 7 trips then they started breaking on hooksets...so I would simply respool, no biggie and have another good 5-7 trips.
Later I found Toray Superhard Upgrade and Sniper FC, and from about 2009-12 those two lines were incredible. I landed many 8lb range bass pitching docks on 10lb test...then the problems in 2013:

In 2013 and last year I went through about every company and every type of fluorocarbon, although I don't believe I tried Seaguar again in that time period, and long story short the spools were terribly inconsistent. Sometimes the line would hold, but in other spots of the spool it would break on hooksets, and this happened with every company and every version they had.

So this year I'm thinking of ordering Sugoi Yamamoto fluorocarbon (as it worked well in the past for me) and then just going back the P-Line CXX co-polymer. I hate to, as I've made my mark on getting tight lipped fish to bite on finesse jigs and light line...but let's face it there's nothing worse than losing fish and $4 jigs over and over

So has anyone else had luck in the past, and then had problems since 2013? I can't be the only one...(and it's not the knot)

[toddmc]

I'm not a big believer in bad spools of line. I tend to think that it is user error with fluoro because it doesn't degrade nearly as bad as mono. One of my team tournament partners from the past was an old Maxima sponsored pro that fished a lot of Maxima fluoro and he would break off at the knot and in the middle of his line several times daily. He was a disaster that never covered his rods in the rod locker and had rods all over each other on the deck. He never filled the gaps on his hooks and tied a palomar knot which is proven to be one of the weaker knots with fluoro. Here is a previous post that I made a few years back to help anglers having problems with fluoro. http://forums.tackletour.com/viewtopic. ... 10#p351482

[trent_s]

I'll check the link, but having fished fluoro for years...I know it wasn't bad knots, as I only tie san diego jam, double san diego jam, and that goofy shaw grigsby knot...which all worked in the past, and on big fish (and I always lube the knot and never kink it). IDK, I know one local pro was having the same issue and said he had heard a few others, but I just wanted to know if others had experienced this lately. And I baby my gear, and rods are never banged around on deck. Thanks for the input though.

[toddmc]

I'll check the link, but having fished fluoro for years...I know it wasn't bad knots, as I only tie san diego jam, double san diego jam, and that goofy shaw grigsby knot...which all worked in the past, and on big fish (and I always lube the knot and never kink it). IDK, I know one local pro was having the same issue and said he had heard a few others, but I just wanted to know if others had experienced this lately. And I baby my gear, and rods are never banged around on deck. Thanks for the input though.

Hopefully you will see one of my suggestions that will help. I don't want to sound like a know it all because I don't have all of the answers. The link is just my observations after using many fluoros for many years.
I have never really seen the fluoro stretch issue addressed on TT. I recently caught a 20 pound plus carp that pulled as hard as any freshwater fish that I have caught. It took my 20lb. Sniper on several drag stripping runs. The line lost substantial sensitivity after that. TT tests stretch in their fluoro reviews, but I never really see much on whether you should keep using fluoro once it has been stretched to its limit. Back in the day, we would stretch the mono on our spinning reels to take the kinks out. I tried this with fluoro and it didn't help. Regardless of whether repeated stretch plays a role in fluoro, you really need to be mindful of how you treat your fluoro because even though it is harder than mono, any weak link is magnified.

[njbasscat]

The only time fluoro has given me a fit in regards to breaking is when I had a cracked guide insert that I wasnt aware of. I check my line often, especially on bottom bouncing techniques. It's got better abrasion resistance then nylon but surely isn't knick proof.

[toddmc]

The only time fluoro has given me a fit in regards to breaking is when I had a cracked guide insert that I wasnt aware of. I check my line often, especially on bottom bouncing techniques. It's got better abrasion resistance then nylon but surely isn't knick proof.

It seems like most of the problems that you hear about are with bottom bouncing techniques. Most of the problems I see are due to anglers not checking their line often enough and huge hooksets with stiff rods that often go along with these techniques. Like Trent, I have had several very successful tournament anglers complain about what they thought was a bad batch or brand of fluoro. One of the guys that I compete against in team tournaments is one of our best pros in the west and he had a bunch of Sunline given to him by Brent Ehler when he bought his boat. He feels Sugoi is much more capable of taking a beating and gave up on Sniper because he experienced lots of breakoffs, but I know he uses lots of heavy rods. I, on the other hand, am willing to give up the possible increased shock resistance of Sugoi for a line that doesn't have memory problems. We can't usually have it all. I often only have one or two fish loses each year that I experience due to line breakage while fishing about fifty days a year. But, I am very anal and I try my best to control all of the variables that I am capable of controlling (see my link on previous post).

[trent_s]

The only time fluoro has given me a fit in regards to breaking is when I had a cracked guide insert that I wasnt aware of. I check my line often, especially on bottom bouncing techniques. It's got better abrasion resistance then nylon but surely isn't knick proof.

It seems like most of the problems that you hear about are with bottom bouncing techniques. Most of the problems I see are due to anglers not checking their line often enough and huge hooksets with stiff rods that often go along with these techniques. Like Trent, I have had several very successful tournament anglers complain about what they thought was a bad batch or brand of fluoro. One of the guys that I compete against in team tournaments is one of our best pros in the west and he had a bunch of Sunline given to him by Brent Ehler when he bought his boat. He feels Sugoi is much more capable of taking a beating and gave up on Sniper because he experienced lots of breakoffs, but I know he uses lots of heavy rods. I, on the other hand, am willing to give up the possible increased shock resistance of Sugoi for a line that doesn't have memory problems. We can't usually have it all. I often only have one or two fish loses each year that I experience due to line breakage while fishing about fifty days a year. But, I am very anal and I try my best to control all of the variables that I am capable of controlling (see my link on previous post).

Thanks Todd. All of the stuff you had listed I've accounted for, even including mainly fishing with medium powered rods like the MBR 842 GLX and JWR 852 GLX for jigs up to 3/8 of an ounce with trailer...the reasoning being that the rod flex under a load should help with shock absorption on hookset and take some of the load when fighting fish (or at least that's my hope). I've wondered about my guides on my Loomis' and my factory rods but most all are brand new and I never can find a discernable crack, plus all are SiC guides with the exception of the two rods with recoil and SiC combination. I will say I mainly fish with 10-12 lb test range, and am aware that many companies rate line differently so I always aim for about .30mm line diameter, but have considered moving up to .33 which is around 12-15 lb test size in most companies rather than 10-12 like I previously used...if that doesn't work I may give it up for a while.

This guy sounds like my damn twin...I've had better luck with Sugoi too. Anyways thanks for the input guys

[toddmc]

The only time fluoro has given me a fit in regards to breaking is when I had a cracked guide insert that I wasnt aware of. I check my line often, especially on bottom bouncing techniques. It's got better abrasion resistance then nylon but surely isn't knick proof.

It seems like most of the problems that you hear about are with bottom bouncing techniques. Most of the problems I see are due to anglers not checking their line often enough and huge hooksets with stiff rods that often go along with these techniques. Like Trent, I have had several very successful tournament anglers complain about what they thought was a bad batch or brand of fluoro. One of the guys that I compete against in team tournaments is one of our best pros in the west and he had a bunch of Sunline given to him by Brent Ehler when he bought his boat. He feels Sugoi is much more capable of taking a beating and gave up on Sniper because he experienced lots of breakoffs, but I know he uses lots of heavy rods. I, on the other hand, am willing to give up the possible increased shock resistance of Sugoi for a line that doesn't have memory problems. We can't usually have it all. I often only have one or two fish loses each year that I experience due to line breakage while fishing about fifty days a year. But, I am very anal and I try my best to control all of the variables that I am capable of controlling (see my link on previous post).

Thanks Todd. All of the stuff you had listed I've accounted for, even including mainly fishing with medium powered rods like the MBR 842 GLX and JWR 852 GLX for jigs up to 3/8 of an ounce with trailer...the reasoning being that the rod flex under a load should help with shock absorption on hookset and take some of the load when fighting fish (or at least that's my hope). I've wondered about my guides on my Loomis' and my factory rods but most all are brand new and I never can find a discernable crack, plus all are SiC guides with the exception of the two rods with recoil and SiC combination. I will say I mainly fish with 10-12 lb test range, and am aware that many companies rate line differently so I always aim for about .30mm line diameter, but have considered moving up to .33 which is around 12-15 lb test size in most companies rather than 10-12 like I previously used...if that doesn't work I may give it up for a while.

This guy sounds like my damn twin...I've had better luck with Sugoi too. Anyways thanks for the input guys

I would step up the diameter. You may give up a few bites, but you will probably lose a lot less. Fluoro is the "sensitive drama queen" of the line world that is "high maintenance". We are all kind of realizing the limitations of each brand as we go. The only problems that I have had with fluoro have been while fishing close range with heavy tackle and heavy hooks. Most of my early breakoffs that I thought were the line ended up being the hooks and tungsten weights. I'd see fish hit my bait at a sideways angle from my line resulting in the line sliding into the hook eye gap on the hookset. I could also feel my tungten weight hit my knot like a hammer. Mono is more like a shock absorber while fluoro is more like a glass plate between hard objects. People love to talk about how abrasion resistant most fluoro is, but I feel your average small nick on most fluoro compromises the line much more than the same nick on mono.

[lpquick]

Interesting reading the different points of view. I also have experience with fl and if abrasion resistance is important I find fl a poor choice. Any size nick will compromise the line. If you want to check your guides for cracks and such I recommend roughing up an ear bud and the cotton ball tip will catch on the tiniest surface imperfection.

[tywithay]

Use sniper, shooter, and tatsu. They all keep on trucking, problem free. I've yet to find any lines with a better combination of sensitivity, abrasion resistance, and manageability, than those 3; some excel at certain things better than others. There's no line with better abrasion resistance than Shooter. You can fish that stuff in a mine field.

Did lose a fresh spool of Shooter last spring when my plastic worm grew a hand and decided to grab hold of a tree branch; that was cute.

[mike464]

I love the Shooter Floro, but don't agree on its abrasion resistance. I have one jig spot with big sharp boulders, I'm running football jigs in it and retie the 16 pound Shooter really often due to the line being shredded after a couple casts. The key to the spot is getting stuck in the rock so it's a necessary evil.

[toddmc]

Shooter is harder, more sensitive, and can take more abuse than Sniper. There is no doubt about that. You will retie a lot less with it or Toray Superhard Upgrade. I use it on my jig and Carolina rig rods. But, when it does get a nick, its not something to ignore and it still creates a weak point that tends to be where your line breaks when you put the hammer down with a stiff rod on a big fish. The two flipping legends, Biffle and Brauer, fish Shooter and Tatsu. This tells you something. I love the fact that both are parallel wound on the filler spool because it makes them feel flawless if you fish them immediately after re-spooling before they get a chance to deform on your reel's spool. I think the parallel winding allows you to get an extra day or two out of these lines.

[trent_s]

Shooter is harder, more sensitive, and can take more abuse than Sniper. There is no doubt about that. You will retie a lot less with it or Toray Superhard Upgrade.

X2
I switched to Toray in 2010 because of the toughness, sadly it was breaking on me the last two seasons. Thanks for the input guys.

[tywithay]

I love the Shooter Floro, but don't agree on its abrasion resistance. I have one jig spot with big sharp boulders, I'm running football jigs in it and retie the 16 pound Shooter really often due to the line being shredded after a couple casts. The key to the spot is getting stuck in the rock so it's a necessary evil.

I use mine mostly for jigging a spot that's stacked up with rocks that are covered in zebra mussels. I will go all day without retying. I've yet to find a stronger line.