Line Diameter

The single most important aspect of your tackle providing that vital link between yourself and your catch. What's everyone's favorites and why? Come on in and find out!
Post Reply
goldrod
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4385
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:30 pm

Line Diameter

Post by goldrod » Tue May 26, 2020 11:28 am

I like good line but what I hate is the line diameter variations
14 is really 12 or the 20# is really 16 but it seems like the knot strength is not appropriate for the line. Maybe it’s just me so what are your thoughts ?
What your goto 20# test line
NevEr geT too busy MakiNg a living that yOu forget to make a LIFE!
Instagram is @1ncetime

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11688
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Cal » Tue May 26, 2020 11:43 am

I think you have it the other way around... US line manufacturers typically produce their line in diameters wider than advertised not smaller.
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

goldrod
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4385
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:30 pm

Re: Line Diameter

Post by goldrod » Tue May 26, 2020 11:51 am

Cal wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:43 am
I think you have it the other way around... US line manufacturers typically produce their line in diameters wider than advertised not smaller.
Yeah.
I was using floro for the JDM side.
I’ll buy 20# floro for jigs but in reality I’m buying 14/16 diameter line
I may just have to switch up. I’m experimenting with line and jigs 1/2-5/8oz and the hooks can be pretty stout. So I feel the line diameter being smaller than the pound test is a disadvantage wouldn’t you agree?
What wound you suggest ?
NevEr geT too busy MakiNg a living that yOu forget to make a LIFE!
Instagram is @1ncetime

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11688
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Cal » Tue May 26, 2020 1:44 pm

goldrod wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:51 am
So I feel the line diameter being smaller than the pound test is a disadvantage ...
Line diameter is a measure in either inches or millimeters not strength.

Strength is measured in pound test which represents the breaking strength of the line.

So I think first, you need to get that straight in your head. ;)

JDM ratings for breaking strength are more a reflection of how strong the lines actually are. Typically, one of their lines rated at 10lb test will break at 10 pounds of pressure. Knot strength not withstanding. A similar US rated line at 10lbs will likely break at more - something like 12 or 14. That doesn't mean a US rated line is stronger. That means it is rated incorrectly which also means you are fishing line that is thicker than it needs to be because in one brand of fishing line, the thicker that line is, the stronger it will be in breaking strength.

Knot strength is an entirely different matter. We measure knot strength at the point where a line will break in a simple, overhand knot in the middle of the line because different knots carry different rates of success depending on the type of line. But the reasons lines fail at knots is because the material is crossing over on itself and failing at that pinch point. A simple, overhand knot simulates that scenario easily and consistently.

People argue/complain about our testing methodology because we're not using this or that knot and don't understand we are testing the worst case scenario.
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

User avatar
LgMouthGambler
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am
Location: S FL

Re: Line Diameter

Post by LgMouthGambler » Tue May 26, 2020 1:50 pm

I always order line based on diameter, not what they say the # test is.
<")))><{

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11688
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Cal » Tue May 26, 2020 2:09 pm

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:50 pm
I always order line based on diameter, not what they say the # test is.
That’s the way to do it... but unfortunately, as today’s review demonstrates, sometimes you can’t even rely on that info without measuring it for yourself 🤨
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

goldrod
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4385
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:30 pm

Re: Line Diameter

Post by goldrod » Tue May 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Cal wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:44 pm
goldrod wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:51 am
So I feel the line diameter being smaller than the pound test is a disadvantage ...
Line diameter is a measure in either inches or millimeters not strength.

Strength is measured in pound test which represents the breaking strength of the line.

So I think first, you need to get that straight in your head. ;)

JDM ratings for breaking strength are more a reflection of how strong the lines actually are. Typically, one of their lines rated at 10lb test will break at 10 pounds of pressure. Knot strength not withstanding. A similar US rated line at 10lbs will likely break at more - something like 12 or 14. That doesn't mean a US rated line is stronger. That means it is rated incorrectly which also means you are fishing line that is thicker than it needs to be because in one brand of fishing line, the thicker that line is, the stronger it will be in breaking strength.

Knot strength is an entirely different matter. We measure knot strength at the point where a line will break in a simple, overhand knot in the middle of the line because different knots carry different rates of success depending on the type of line. But the reasons lines fail at knots is because the material is crossing over on itself and failing at that pinch point. A simple, overhand knot simulates that scenario easily and consistently.

People argue/complain about our testing methodology because we're not using this or that knot and don't understand we are testing the worst case scenario.

Got it. Thanks
NevEr geT too busy MakiNg a living that yOu forget to make a LIFE!
Instagram is @1ncetime

User avatar
LgMouthGambler
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am
Location: S FL

Re: Line Diameter

Post by LgMouthGambler » Fri May 29, 2020 6:55 am

Cal wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:09 pm
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:50 pm
I always order line based on diameter, not what they say the # test is.
That’s the way to do it... but unfortunately, as today’s review demonstrates, sometimes you can’t even rely on that info without measuring it for yourself 🤨
If you think that line diameter is gonna 100% accurate through the whole entire spool, then you are a little off canter... :lol: got to factor in the winding, processing, etc. No possible way that a line that is "flexible" will retain 100% true.
<")))><{

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11688
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Cal » Fri May 29, 2020 7:08 am

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 6:55 am

If you think that line diameter is gonna 100% accurate through the whole entire spool, then you are a little off canter... :lol: got to factor in the winding, processing, etc. No possible way that a line that is "flexible" will retain 100% true.
That's why we sample 5 different points in the fishing line and then average the result. Our expectation is not for our measurements to match up exactly, but it should be close. Advertising your line at 0.29mm in diameter, and having it measure out on average at 0.366mm is not close.
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

User avatar
LgMouthGambler
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am
Location: S FL

Re: Line Diameter

Post by LgMouthGambler » Fri May 29, 2020 7:11 am

Cal wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:08 am
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 6:55 am

If you think that line diameter is gonna 100% accurate through the whole entire spool, then you are a little off canter... :lol: got to factor in the winding, processing, etc. No possible way that a line that is "flexible" will retain 100% true.
That's why we sample 5 different points in the fishing line and then average the result. Our expectation is not for our measurements to match up exactly, but it should be close. Advertising your line at 0.29mm in diameter, and having it measure out on average at 0.366mm is not close.
To that particular scenario, yes...that completely off. :lol:
<")))><{

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11688
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Cal » Fri May 29, 2020 7:14 am

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:11 am
To that particular scenario, yes...that completely off. :lol:
And that's the scenario to which I was referring in my response above.
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

User avatar
LgMouthGambler
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 2516
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am
Location: S FL

Re: Line Diameter

Post by LgMouthGambler » Fri May 29, 2020 11:08 am

Cal wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:14 am
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:11 am
To that particular scenario, yes...that completely off. :lol:
And that's the scenario to which I was referring in my response above.
I know, was just making a "general" statement to the topic....
<")))><{

Larry 2020 Niagara
Angler
Angler
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Line Diameter

Post by Larry 2020 Niagara » Fri May 29, 2020 2:10 pm

The line diameters listed on packages, spools, websites,
etc. are so far off that my guess is that they are marketing
driven. In other words, the company decides what lines
are their primary competition, and then lists a diameter
for each pound test that compares favorably to their
competitors’ listed diameters.

montey
Senior Angler
Senior Angler
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:57 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Line Diameter

Post by montey » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:30 am

I buy line based on diameter more than lb test rating. For example 8ln Seaguar fluoro is the same diameter of 6lb Trilene XL and a lot of other 6lb monos.

slipperybob
Platinum Angler
Platinum Angler
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:42 am
Location: Lil'Can

Re: Line Diameter

Post by slipperybob » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:06 am

It's because little kids don't know how to tie a knot and a simple overhand knot will cut into the line strength. So that 20# line is only good for one simple knot. Well of course the line itself is stronger than 20#. :big grin: Being the kid that started with 20# fishing line that almost landed myself in the drink when I caught a big fish, it it weren't for my uncle saving me, but lost the fish in the process. LOL.

For an ice fishing guy that I am now...line diameter actually plays more of a role over that of the listed test#. Line strength is also important too but the strength per line diameter is way more important. Then how the line behaves and it's characteristics while fishing matters.

The following are some lines I ice fish with and tested against my Berkly Tec 35# fish scale with knots that I actually tie on to the terminal tackle.

ASSO Micron 3 .153 mm 4# knot break 4# 8 oz. Mfg claim break of 4.8#
ASSO Micron 3 5# .173 mm breaks 5# 2 oz. Mfg claimed break of 6.2#

Pline Floroclear .16 mm 3# line break 4# 1 oz.
Pline Floroclear .18 mm 4# line break 5# 14 oz.

Stroft GTM 5X 5.28# test .15 mm line break 5# 10 oz.
Stroft GTM 4X 7.9# test .18 mm knot break 7# 2 oz

Berkley Trilene Microice .18 mm 3# line break 4# 1 oz.

The Stroft GTM line is way stronger, but I actually prefer fishing the ASSO Micron 3 line way more when it comes to finessing the lure to entice a fish bite. When it's finesse light lines, the change in a fraction of a millimeter is subltle enough with how one jigs and dances a lure in a few feet of water. The water depth changes also starts to effect it more so into depths just beyond 30 feet deep. Jigging light lures of 1/16 th oz. to even 1/32 nd oz. needs lines that will straighten itself out without the lure weight. Even a fish breathing on it, will show changes to the lines if one watches it carefully on an up bite and the line slacks off just off the rod tip or the line coils up on a slack. Set the hook.
slip bobbing is the laziest way to fish

Post Reply