St. Croix Avid ML vs. Loomis M?

[Hulkster]

Hello everyone. I am considering purchasing a new spinning rod for throwing small ( aprox. 1/4 oz.) lead head grubs, and tubes for bottom bouncing for smallies here in Canada. I would also be using the rod for small crankbaits, spoons and spinners for trout. I have two Loomis IMX rods (MBR 783 and the SR841 ultralight) that I love, but I am looking for something in a two piece configuration, which eliminates all of the Spin Jig rods from Loomis. I would be using 8 pound test, probably with a stradic FH 2500. I have a question for those of you who have fished with the Loomis SJR 782 and the Avid AS66ML. How do the two rods compare? I have heard that St. Croix rods tend to be more powerful than comparable Loomis models, so is a ML st. croix comparable to a M in the Loomis model? Basically, I am looking for a good spinning rod (2 peice for ease of transport) that has a lighter tip with good backbone, with enough sensitivity for fishing small tubes and grubs. If the SJR 782 is the better rod, I may just go ahead and get the one peice anyway.


Also, I have two older stradics that I love (FG) models. How do the FH models compare? I know they are totally revamped. Are they better? or is it all just a gimick?


For those of you with the 2500 size shimano's, how do they balance on 6'6 rods?


Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Thanks!

-Hulkster

[Mattman]

People do say that St. Croix's tend to be more powerful. But that's really a misunderstanding. That M and ML terminology is completely subjective. There is no industry standard for those ratings so one companies M can be another's ML. And even within the same company a M powered spinning rod can be different from a M powered casting rod. But if you look at the actual weight ratings of both of those rods...they are rated for 1/8 to 3/8 ounces. Forget the M and ML terminology. Use the actual weight ratings.

Both of those rods are excellent choices for what you're wanting to do. I've built a good number of each of them. The Loomis has more mid and butt power than the St. Croix in my opinion. And I prefer the Spin Jig taper that Loomis has for most of my fishing.

If having a 2-piece rod is important to you however, I wouldn't shy away from the St. Croix. It is an excellent option for tubes/grubs. And since it has a slightly slower softer action than the Loomis SJ's, I think it's a better option for some of the moving bait presentations you may be using it for. It's probably a better all around rod.

I think the newer reels are much improved. They're very much like the Japanese release versions I've been fishing with for a few years. I've also gotten to play with some customers new US versions recently too.

The 2500 size is a very good size for that 6'6" rod. You'll have the line capacity to really sling stuff out a long way. The 2000 and 2500 sizes are quite popular on both of the rods you're looking at. I'll use 2000's on verticle presentations and the 2500 for horizontal presentations in rods of that power class.

[Hulkster]

Thanks matt! I think I will probably get a one peice rod after all - probably the Loomis IMX SJR721 or 722 (the 6 foot length will be a little easier to transport). The two IMX rods I have now (MBR and the UL rod) are amazing, so I might as well stick with the lineup, even if it means a one piece rod. I have heard many good things about both of these rods. How will the 2500 size reel balance on the 6 foot models? Which do you think would be better, the 721 or the 722? The loomis catalouge comments that the 721 is "perfectly balanced with 8 pound test and 1/4 oz lures" which is really what I would be using it mainly for. But then again, for crawling tubes/jigs along the bottom, maybe the 722 would be better??

Thanks again!

Hulkster

[catch'em-all]

I agree with Mattman on his comparisons. I am persoanlly a big fan of the St. Croix 2S66MLF and the 3S66MLF two piece blanks. Very economical and perform well above their price tag. They are extremely versatile blanks for our Ontario waters. These tend to be the rod I personally use more than any other for LM, and SM Bass and Pike. They also work well for walleye, although you need to be careful because usually where there are walleye, there are muskies waiting to surprise you and a good size muskie would be a handful on this blank. I only use two piece blanks for convenience of travel and storage, and most of those that I build for others are also 2 piece here in Canada.

The FH reel is very different from the FG. Very smooth and lays line on the spool with remarkable consistency, very flat and even, which means it comes off the spool easier and smoother, resulting is great casting performance. I am a huge Daiwa fan but in the $100 spinning reel market my money would go on a Stradic or Japanese version Ultegra or Biomaster. I had the previous version Sustain and when compared to the FH Stradic, the Stradic feels tighter, more refined, smoother and casts better.

[Mattman]

Hulkster - If you're considering stepping back to a 6' Loomis rod, then you probably should take a very hard look at the 721. The 782 and 722, while rated the same, feel a bit different. Loomis' SJ series have dramatic tapers going from fine tips to hefty butts. This really gets emphasised with the 6' models and they tend to feel quite stout. So, while a 782 is probably a great choice for what your looking for, you may think that 722 is too stout, especially in the IMX.

[aquaholik]

Don't overlook the Avid ML in 6.5ft or 7ft. I don't have the 7ft loomis IMX in spinning but I do have them in 6.5ft and 7ft length for baitcaster. I think you will find that the Avid is lighter in the hand than the Loomis. Even a 7ft Avid ML is easy to balance with a 2500 size reel. It is not tip heavy at all, even with a Certate 2500(8.8 oz). Also make sure that the loomis use fuji concept guide since the older one use pac bay guide. Either way, I would compare the two side by side. I'm partial toward the Avid 7ft ML (2 piece) since I use that heavily for the past 3 years.

[Hulkster]

Hello everyone! well I browsed some tackle shops today, and was really impressed with the feel of the SJR 722. It balanced perfectly with a stradic 2500. I am leaning towards a one piece rod after all. I am assuming that for the uses that I am doing, either the 722 or the 782 would be fine (does each have enough backbone to fish 1/4 jigs/tubes). Are the actions of the two rods pretty close except for the extra length? I am leaning towards the 6'6 model, mainly for longer casts and better fish fighting capabilities. I will put up with the extra 6 inches as far as transport goes, since I already transport my MBR 783 everywhere anyway! LOL!
Any help would be greatly appeciated!!

[Mattman]

I personally prefer the 82 over the 02. As I said above, with the dramatic tapers Loomis has in their SJ series, the 6 footers tend to feel quite stout and I do know of guys that step down in power class when picking a rod because of that. 1/4 ounce jigs/tubes are perfect for that 782 rod. I have a GL3 782 and a Shikari SHX (IMX equivalent) SJ662 (6'6" 2 power). I use them for jig/minnow combos for Walleye, jig/small plastic for Bass (Large and Smallmouth), unweighted Senko's (away from heavy cover), unweighted Power Jerk Shads, small cranks...

My biggest fish on my 662 is 6# 11 ounce Walleye. Also caught my fair share of 18" Bass on it. It'll have more than enough backbone for fish. I'd use that MB783 in heavy cover though.