Hobie vs. Native watercraft

[CALL ME RIFLE]

Quick question-why in the world would anyone buy a Hobie,when you can get a Native boat with propel pedal drive for a heck of alot less money?Or,you could get a Native with both propel pedal,and a trolling motor insert as well,for roughly the same price as the Hobie? Just paying for a name?

[MidTNKayakAngler]

I say demo both and you will know what’s best for you. The Mirage Drive is more efficient than the Propel System of the Native, the hull of the Hobie is more efficient also. Mirage Drive with Turbo Fins is faster. With the Mirage Drive of the Hobie in shallow water you can flutter the fins where you can operate in 10” of water where the Propel of the Native requires 16” of water. With the Hobie when going thru extreme shallows, or vegetation you can tuck the fins against the hull where the Native you have to remove the drive system. The Hobie is more stable and the cockpit is more friendly (move around more). Hobie has 2 year warranty, and they stand behind their boats, I’m not sure about the Native I know its limited lifetime so not sure what that means. The Native Propel Drive takes up a lot of space where the Hobie Drive is minimal so if you are in shallows or have to remove both drives it will be easier to store the Hobie Drive than the Native’s.

The Native Propel weighs less if that’s a deal breaker.

I prefer the Hobie more. I’ve owned 3 so far. Buy it then use it for the 2 year warranty, sell it and buy new again for the warranty. New every two. The resale is pretty good also, or I get my monies worth of two years.


Jeremy

[Choupique]

Quick question-why in the world would anyone buy a Hobie,when you can get a Native boat with propel pedal drive for a heck of alot less money?Or,you could get a Native with both propel pedal,and a trolling motor insert as well,for roughly the same price as the Hobie? Just paying for a name?

Well first off, the mariner and outback are the same price so I dont know where your getting the price difference?

Have peddled both? There is no comparison, one features proprietary technology in energy transfer and one is "a bicycle with a propeller." Don't get me wrong, id have one if the mirage drive didnt exist. I personally watched an outback and a mariner tied back to back with a rope have a tug of war, the hobie pulled the mariner at a rate that would almost be an acceptable cruising speed. Now if you want to compare seat comfort you might have an arguement as long as you werent comparing it to a pro angler.

Get what you like, but there no grounds for the arguement.

[CALL ME RIFLE]

Of course there is room for comparison!! LOL,what a smarmy post dude(not you MidTN,the louisiana guy).First of all,I wasnt thinking of the Mariner,but rather the Ultimate-in comparison to the pro angler...definitely a price difference,pretty good one at that.Beyond the price difference,is actual real world functionality...unless you are incredibly weak in the upper body,the only real advantage to a pedal type of system,would be to be able to back pedal in slightly moving water.in order to stay on top of a fishing location(instead of drifting into where you want to cast),while keeping hands free to fish...I understand that the hobie doesnt work in reverse..That alone makes the Native,in my mind,the far better boat...I understand that the Mirage drive will work in shallow water,but I dont spend alot of time fishing in kiddie pools,or even lakes with an average depth of 1 foot.Just dont see too many fish in mud puddles,at least not in my neck of the woods..Is the mirage drive faster,can it tow other boats?Hell I dont know bud,tell ya the truth,I dont think Ive ever seen anyone towing any other boats with a yak...doesnt seem like the right tool for the job,seems rather foolish to equate towing ability with any yak?I do know that I can pick up an Ultimate 12 w/ propel for roughly 1500,make it closer to 2000 with both propel and an actual trolling motor insert...best price Ive seen on a pro angler was 2500...
so hey,in the end,maybe you are right.There really is no comparison.Seems the Native wins hands down..

[Choupique]

haha, come on man! ...as to the point of being swarmy, I didn’t think I was breaching this topic into a being anymore opinionated than your post! The most accurate model comparisons in the two brands are the Mariner and Outback in size and weigh capacity; so thats where I went. The power/towing example just boils down to the boats peddle drive ability to converting the users energy efficiently.

Seems like your sold on what you want and excited to get kayak fishing. That’s good, and thats why they make all the different brands. Kayak fishing is great no matter what hunk of plastic is floating you.

[CALL ME RIFLE]

LMAO,smarmy man,not swarmy...sorry for laughing bud,but you just caused me to envision thousands of little "yous",swarming about me like so many hornets,posting smarmy stuff from all angles until I have full body hives reminiscient of multiple stings..lmmfaooooooooooo
Its all good there,ragin' cajun-and I'm sure Hobies are great boats.I just dont think they are worth what they cost,considering everything else that is out there of quality and at a lower price range.
But in all reality,this post was especially for MidTN;kind of an inside thing,as I gauged from a different post he made,in a different thread (in regards to a post of mine),that he sounded a bit displeased with my idea of having so many rods that I have different sets for which type of boat I am fishing from..then I felt a bit bad for critiquing his post in response and pointing out a bit of an discrepancy therein,as I think he is a good guy and well,not smarmy.lmao
Sooo,knowing that he is a big hobie fan,I had actually threw this post out there as something of a "softball",and a chance for him to speak upon the boat he loves,without so much as a further reply from me..in order to establish peace with a fella that I feel contributes well here even with limited number of posts.
But,you f&%ked it all up.lmao
So much for my tactful peacekeeping~~
But its cool,I feel like fishing is a powerful common tie,and that true fishermen,wherever they should be,are something of a brotherhood... and I aint mad at ya.

[MidTNKayakAngler]

No hard feelings.

I know I haven't been on here long, and don't know how my credability is here. Kayak fishing is a passion of mine, I'm no expert, but try to be as informative as I can. This is a great site with massive ammounts of information from all over the world.

I do like Hobie, and I'm not paid to say that lol. I have, and use Hobie, Wilderness Systems, and Jackson Kayak, they all have their place. I will try not to put down any manufacturer as everyone has their niche, I'll try to state the pros and cons when I can. If a Native is what you like that is great, they wouldn't be where they are with an inferior product.

The Hobies can go in reverse, you just have to pull the Mirage Drive out turn it around and put it back in and pedal.

Some places I fish are uneasily accessed, and it requires putting in at one strip pit and then navigating thru a small channel less than 2' deep and then opens up to a larger strip pit. By navigating this you must flutter (using short strokes so the fins of the Mirage Drive don't get damaged). The fins of the Mirage Drive are able to be damaged, not easily, but can happen when you encounter shallow rocks, or trees just below the surface.

I try to put out the best information I can, and be an asset trying to inform people about kayak fishing. There is no best kayak, but there are a lot of good kayaks, and some that aren't as good.

Jeremy

[CALL ME RIFLE]

Naw MidTN,your cred is solid bro...you only have a handful of posts,but they've all been of substance,you know your stuff.For example....I'm thinking about picking up some of those "yak attack gear trac" rails for a few of the yaks I have,getting the ball hitch mounts and likely RAM rod holders..what's your take on that system?Looks perfect to me,but I dont yet have any experience with it..lol but I'd bet a dollar against a dime that you have...

[MidTNKayakAngler]

I have about 5 of each of the RAM Revolution, RAM Aluminum Tubes, and RAM Tube 2008 (plastic), and have been using them for about a year.

The most versatile of the three are the RAM Revolution. They have a strap to lock your reel in place, they easily accept spinning, and casting reels, I've used as small as 1000 series reels and as large as 8000 spinning reels, used 50E Curados, and 300E Curados in them. The 1000 series spinning reels are a little loose and sloppy, but the rod holder has a hard plastic strap that locks the rod and reel in place. The locking strap is easy to engage and disengage so if you are wearing gloves it's still easy.

The RAM Aluminum Tubes I use for trolling larger baits for larger fish because the clamp of the tube locks tighter onto the RAM Ball, and when a fish takes the bait the rod doesn’t fly into the water it's solid enough that the rod stays upright and sets the hook for you. I've caught as big as 45-50lb fish in 60' of water with these rod holders, make sure your drag isn’t set to tight because if you have the clamps locked down on the RAM ball a tight drag and heavy line you could be capsized by a large enough fish. I use these in the Salt, and there I will sometimes use a rod leash, and these rod holders do not have a leash attachment.

RAM Tube 2008 (plastic) these are good rod holders with a carabiner attachment, they don't tighten ort grip as well as the Aluminum tubes to the RAM ball there is some slippage, but not bad.

If you watch this video at 1:10 you will see the performance of the plastic tube rod holder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghGN3FrAO6s

The Yak Attack Gear Tracks are nice, there are 2 styles the original style that just came available about 1-2 months ago, and a new slim style. I do not have any, but will probably pick up a few in the next few weeks. They come in different lengths, and come with their own mounting hardware. A buddy of mine that I fish with a lot locally picked some up, and I saw his installation and it looks good. He is very picky on products and is happy with his purchase. With the original style (I think they look better), but you need almost 1.5" of width where you are mounting it.

I really like the idea of the RAM coupled with the Yak Attack Gear Track becsuae you don't have really anything sticking up protruding from the Hull, and they are cheaper, and you don’t have to drill large holes like the Tallon Mounts.

Jeremy

[JoseC]

I have been in both boats and would pick the hobie hands down.

[ecu daniel 14]

I have been in both boats and would pick the hobie hands down.

why?

[JoseC]

I have been in both boats and would pick the hobie hands down.

why?

The hobie mirage drive is way better. More efficient. I could also use it in really shallow water and flutter kick; if you bump into something with the mirage drive you can start flutter kicking from that point and recover. With the Heritage prop there is no recovering from it. Its either deep enough or too shallow.

Also the mirage drive was less prone to picking debris and gets rid of them faster and easier. I tried a native ultimate with a pedal drive for a while but its just not as good as the mirage drive.

Its like comparing pieces of equipment in two different classes all together. If you think about it, Hobie's mirage drive is a technology they built a kayak brand around, with heritage its just something to try to compete with Hobie. If I thought Heritage's system was better I would sell my hobies and buy a heritage... but that is not the case.

I have to disclose that I am on Hobie's fishing team but that being said, this came after I already had tried whats out there and made up my mind on a Hobie. I do not guide, work in a different industry full time all together, I can afford to use any kayak I want; kayak fishing is my passion and I take it very seriously whether its fishing competitively or just a day on the water.

Personally I avoid being sponsored by companies that I don't absolutely love because I have been blessed with the financial ability to get what I want even if it requires a little saving, so I really don't have a need to be stuck with one brand, its is in many cases a disadvantage to be sponsored by a company in situations when perhaps mixing and matching would be the best option. Once you are sponsored by a company you are limited only to that company, which is the same reason I have avoid some endorsements ... unless I think it is the best product on the market as in the case with Hobie. If I want to cover big distances I use my Revo 13, if I need a little extra stability I use my outback, If I want to push pole the flats then the ProAngler is the best option. One of the best features of Hobie that most people do not take advantage of is the sail. People think that its like all other sails where you go with the wind, but in these boats it pretty much turns your kayak into a sail boat and you can navigate extremely well.

Once you spend some time fishing in a Hobie there is no turning back. I have owned wilderness boats, heritage boats, emotion boats but there is just no comparison. I spent a week fishing in a revo 13 when I visited a friend and when I got back I sold everything else I had, and have been fishing out of a hobie ever since. They just make the best fishing machines out there in my opinion and give me the ability to fish areas in certain ways that would almost be impossible if paddling.

[ecu daniel 14]

Well written reply. I have absolutely no clue what you mean by your last sentence tho. How does hobie allow for fishing areas a paddle craft can't? Thats rediculous and opposite.

[JoseC]

Well written reply. I have absolutely no clue what you mean by your last sentence tho. How does hobie allow for fishing areas a paddle craft can't? Thats rediculous and opposite.

I totally understand how you would think that. The truth is that I used to think the same thing as a long time paddling purist. Then all it takes is being "stuck" in a hobie for a week and going back to fishing out of a paddle craft will seem like taking a step back. Not to say I do not enjoy paddling, I love paddling and still do paddle a quest from time to time; but when it comes to fishing this is definitely not the case, I have never been one to take a step backwards out of principle. It makes no sense to stand by my decisions based off of principle when there is a better way, a philosophy that has had a significant impact in my career as a microbiologist.

Back to the point, just to clarify, you interpreted my words incorrectly. I did not say that you could not fish the same areas as a paddle craft, what I said was that it allows you to approach certain areas differently, in ways that would be impractical and at times and even impossible out of a paddle craft. This alternate approach lets me comfortably make the best presentation possible without other factors distracting me from fishing. Here are a couple examples:

1) A large percentage of my fishing is done in tidal areas such as the flats, up creeks, rivers, etc. These are areas all accessible to paddle/pedal craft. The predatory fish in the area use this movement of water to their advantage. Even if it is very slight, they are there to hunt and will take this current into consideration when selecting an area to find and in the way they ambush their prey. They will set up behind structure, in depressions, at the edge of grass lines, ect, waiting for the tide to bring an easy meal their way and will be keyed into bait that follows this pattern. This is not to say that you cannot catch fish by presenting the lure against the current, but you will catch more trophy fish if you present your lure in a manner in which they expect the next unsuspecting victim to approach.

So how does a Hobie give me the edge in that situation? Well, I can point my Hobie into the current and hold my position without deploying an anchor or stake out pole which makes noise (from my experience, the less noise you make the greater the chances of getting the big girls to eat). With the mirage drive holding me in place, I am able to thoroughly cast the area and when its time to move forward, I just pedal a little more and continue covering water as I move forward. I used to think that my tarpon 160 was the best at this application because it tracks very well because of its length and speed; I typically would get 1-3 casts in before I had to recover from the current or wind pushing my kayak out of position and downstream. With a hobie, this is not a concern at all; besides the periodic rudder adjustment which takes a second to do with your left hand, your hands stay completely free and all you have to worry about is your casting (and not as much on the current or wind). I don't know if anyone reading has tried this but I am sure some have. Imagine not having any more issues, even minor issues holding yourself in current or in the wind. Its one worry that is out the door forever and lets me focus more on the activity that I am there to do, which is catching fish.

2) Another example is when fishing structure such as docks, rockpiles, oyster bars, mangrove shorelines, banks or any other areas near structure I feel that Hobie gives you and edge. Let me set the scenario: When you are quietly able to approach this point of interest (regardless of what it might be), make a cast while holding a desired position which allows you to make the best presentation (without being severely affected by the current or wind), and you finally hook a monster; if fishing with traditional methods, the first thing you have to worry about is getting pulled into the structure and getting broken off. It does not have to be much, sometimes if you give in as little as a couple feet, the fish will win the battle (especially with a BIG fish). This is where I feel that my hobie has empowered me to land more of those fish; instead of worrying about picking up your paddle with one hand and trying to create distance between you and the structure, or worrying about quickly throwing your anchor, all you have to do is slightly turn your rudder and smoothly pedal yourself out of trouble and actually create distance between the fish and the structure without loosing control of the fish or the boat. It works fantastically, especially since it is a smooth gradual pull that fish for some reason do not resist as much as being winched away from the pumping of a rod and reel. Basically, it allows you to have control of the fish while having control of the movements of your boat at the same time.

Think about it, this will also totally change the way you approach bridges and other areas also. It really makes life easier in many ways, gives you more time to focus on fishing (you spend less time trying to control your kayak), you can get more casts in presented correctly in the same period of time, and because of this, you can cover more water that you previously wood if you had to worry about correcting your boat every couple of casts. Plus when covering big distances you can sail, or even if pedaling, its much more comfortable because you are using your legs, which are much larger muscle groups. I personally cover between 8-12 miles of water on average during an outing, sometimes more, sometimes less. Covering water is much more comfortable pedaling, plus your hand are free to eat, drink, look at a map, etc while you do.

Here are a couple examples:


above is a 35" snook that was caught while slowly working upcurrent of a shoreline littered with timber. The fish were sitting behind the structure facing the current. Great presentations + keeping control of the boat in the current with a fish hooked on increased Christina's odds enough to land this fish.


This is a much more impressive snook that was approximately 48/49". Basically the same scenario and another epic win for the angler. Covering a lot of water in current while making the right presentation. Just focusing on fishing and not worrying about keeping control of the boat not only makes all the difference when it comes to hooking such a fish, but also in the anglers ability to get it out of trouble and land it.


Here we were moving our way up a chain of oyster bars, again the best presentation + ability to quickly and efficiently cover water paid off. I am not sure if everyone is aware of this but Fl redfish are much harder to catch than those in LA as they get a lot of pressure. This 34" is a phenomenal redfish for this area.


This last fish is a product of the same formula. Except this was for the last PFTS tournament I fished where we had a short window of tidal movement before things slowed down and the bite shut off. I was able to cover a large amount of water very effectively and was the only competitor that caught a slam.

One thing that I did not mention previously, that I personally really like is the ability to choose the right fin for the situation. If I am fishing the flats I will use a standard fin or the small square fin which will let me do full pedal strokes in 8 inches of water. If I am offshore, fishing heavier currents, or fishing in situations where I need explosive power, I use the turbo fins. A kayak flies with turbo fins.

ecu daniel14, if you do not have a relationship with Heritage, try out a revo 13 or a Pro angler. Fish with it for a week with an open mind, I am certain that you will gain appreciation for it has many clear advantages over paddling, the best part is that in the situations where pedaling is not an option (i.e. less than 8" of water), you can paddle it like you normally do. If you do have a relationship with Heritage, even though you are stuck with that brand, you can still use one of their pedal boats. Even though it is not as versatile and efficient as a Hobie, you can still have most of the advantages of pedaling.

It will also totally change the way you are able to approach a variety of areas, and even fish a variety of areas that are not quite paddle friendly such as bridges during peak tides. I never used to fish bridges during peak tides because it was just a pain, but its much more manageable now.

[ecu daniel 14]

you make some good points again but I find alternative ways to combat everything that Hobie apparently excels at. Thats the joy of kayak fishing. I stand and pole flats with a push pole and use the anchor trolly to pin me in place so there is no need for the "amazing Hobie design to keep me in place". I am not trying to bash Hobie at all here dont take it the wrong way. IMHO both of the crafts being discussed here are not kayaks, they are just footpowered boats. I had the opportunity to be a part of the Native prostaff team but I declined the offer. I dont want to praise one brand boat because the answer is simple....there is no perfect kayak. Ive owned and used several different brands and types of boats and I have yet to find the one all around perfect boat. Sure Hobie makes an excellent product and it looks super fun to fish out of, but some of your points are very biased and I just wanted to point that out for any "newbies" reading this. You dont have to buy a Hobie to catch fish.