Sensitivity - my test of 1 vs 2 piece

[earthworm77]

With the advent of the spigot ferrule this discussion rarely comes up. I have owned several high end US domestic market UL rods that were 1 piece and they did not measure up in sensitivity to even a medium end Major Craft 2 piece ajing rod. While there are some 1 piece JDM UL rods the majority of those are short rods. If a 1 piece is more sensitive why would the Japanese not make more of them for UL angling. That’s a question only they can answer.

Really good point and I was going to bring up exactly what you said about some of the Major Craft rods. They(I have about 14 now) got me back on the path to 2pc rods. These days I own a couple of Dobyns Champion SS rods a few flipping sticks that are all 1pc.....the vast majority of my rods are 2pc rods. I have even been switching my inshore SW rods to 2pc models. I notice no feeling of lack of sensitivity.

[poisonokie]

With the advent of the spigot ferrule this discussion rarely comes up. I have owned several high end US domestic market UL rods that were 1 piece and they did not measure up in sensitivity to even a medium end Major Craft 2 piece ajing rod. While there are some 1 piece JDM UL rods the majority of those are short rods. If a 1 piece is more sensitive why would the Japanese not make more of them for UL angling. That’s a question only they can answer.

Really good point and I was going to bring up exactly what you said about some of the Major Craft rods. They(I have about 14 now) got me back on the path to 2pc rods. These days I own a couple of Dobyns Champion SS rods a few flipping sticks that are all 1pc.....the vast majority of my rods are 2pc rods. I have even been switching my inshore SW rods to 2pc models. I notice no feeling of lack of sensitivity.

That's a lot of Major Craft! Kudos! Those chicks make a great rod (I'm pretty sure every person in that factory is female judging from the pictures.) I'm up to 5 myself. Thinking about a solid tip X-Ride next. Might sell my two St. Croix Panfish rods for one.

[ultralight]

Bronzeye, great comments. That's why we have these discussions.

As long as you are comparing the identical rod within the same series (i.e. Avid vs Avid. Or LE vs LE) and they weigh the same, then you have a point. I do believe that weight/mass is one of the key to sensitivity which is why I build as lightly as I can.

By the way, one does not actually have to increase a diameter of a blank to increase stiffness as one get towards the butt. One can, technically, just add carbon fiber material while reducing the mandril diameter along the way towards the butt to keep the diameter the same or even get smaller. No one does that that I know.

Now someone just need to own the same 1 piece and 2 piece rods by St Croix and give a report back to sensitivity. Generally, I would say practical experience trumps arm chair theorizing in this situation. Would be interesting to see.

And also ferrule over blank vs. spigot joints.

...So please free to express your opinions. Love em.

It could be that my experience is an outlier but until I experience an actual counter example, that's the persuasion. At least we know that there is no logical reason why a 2 piece will be more sensitive than a 1 piece - but the reverse is not true...

Premise 1: The greater the mass of a given material through which vibrations must travel, the more they will be diminished.
Premise 2: Some 2-piece rods have less total blank mass than their one-piece counterparts.
Conclusion: At least in such rods, the 2-piece version could be more sensitive.

Evidence for Premise 2, from St. Croix's website The 2-piece versions of these spinning rods weigh .1 oz. less than 1-pc:
[*]Avid 60 ULF, 70MLF
[*]LE 66MLF, 70MF, 70MHF
(Most of the 2-piece spinning rods in these series weigh the same as the 1-piece versions; a few outweigh the 1-piece.)

I used to be baffled by this, wondering how a rod with an overlapped joint could weigh less than, or the same as, one without it. Then I looked at two-piece rods of mine and noticed that they tend to have thinner butt sections than the one-piece rods with similar tip actions. I realized that in order to maintain a continuously progressive bend under load, the one-piece rods have to keep increasing in diameter to at least the reel seat area. In two-piece rods, there is a more rapid swelling of the diameter as one moves from the tip to the joint, but then a reset to a smaller diameter in the butt section (which must slide into the tip section). So the presumption that one-piece rods must be more sensitive appears to be (if I may) re-buttable.

In most of the Avid and LE spin rods, the result is a wash in terms of total blank mass--the one-piece and two-piece end up weighing the same. So the theoretical issue in comparing vibration transfer seems to me to be this: Is vibration transfer more attenuated through a tightly fitting overlap of rod-making materials than it is through a greater distribution of those materials between that point and the sensing hand?

If carbon fibers were like steel pipe, one might expect better vibration transmission if all the fibers ran continuously from tip to butt. But rods aren't steel pipe; new fibers are added as one proceeds tip to butt, and some of that is cross-woven scrim and sometimes hoop wrapping; most such added materials don't run butt to tip. All of that is bonded together with resin. To me, it is not intuitively obvious that the one-piece rod should be more sensitive than the two-piece, especially in the cases where the two-piece version ends up with less total blank mass.

I agree that the proof is in the pudding, though it may be that no general rule is possible, even regarding rods within the same series of the same manufacturer.

[CM_Stewart]

While there are some 1 piece JDM UL rods the majority of those are short rods. If a 1 piece is more sensitive why would the Japanese not make more of them for UL angling. That’s a question only they can answer.

Have you seen how small their cars are?

Any sensitivity advantage in a one piece rod would be lost the first time you shut the car door on the rod tip.

[JB in SC]

While there are some 1 piece JDM UL rods the majority of those are short rods. If a 1 piece is more sensitive why would the Japanese not make more of them for UL angling. That’s a question only they can answer.

Have you seen how small their cars are?

Any sensitivity advantage in a one piece rod would be lost the first time you shut the car door on the rod tip.

Chris you would know as well as anyone, but I'd think a Japanese angler does a lot more traveling by train and bus than a US angler. Their houses/apartments are pretty small too. No space is wasted.

[poisonokie]

While there are some 1 piece JDM UL rods the majority of those are short rods. If a 1 piece is more sensitive why would the Japanese not make more of them for UL angling. That’s a question only they can answer.

Have you seen how small their cars are?

Any sensitivity advantage in a one piece rod would be lost the first time you shut the car door on the rod tip.

Chris you would know as well as anyone, but I'd think a Japanese angler does a lot more traveling by train and bus than a US angler. Their houses/apartments are pretty small too. No space is wasted.

No space to waste.

I can fit 12+ combos up to 8' in my Mazda 3. Could go longer, but they'd get too much in the way of the stick shift.

[ultralight]

One way I carry long rods in my car, if there are not passengers, is to pop up the passenger side front and rear headrest. Put the two or three rods between the two posts, and then reinsert the headrests. Viola - a rod holder that stabilizes the rods with reels. And yes, 8 footers are no problem even in normal sedans.