Small Ambassadeur guide for dummies?

[ras]

Hello,

Is anybody willing to contribute? I would very much like to learn. Any notes would be appreciated. A question to get this started: what's the difference between IAR and non-IAR versions of 2500c?

[Big-Bass]

The 2500C was produced from 1975-1981 traditionally. The 1500C started in 1977. They don't have Instant Anti-Reverse. The CI and CIAR models came out in the 1990s. There are a lot of revisions from 1975 -1981 up to 1984. From 1989-2007 many too were produced with the changing of company ownership. They also had a variety of color options. If you want to find a great reference, "The Small Ambassadeurs" book is worth a look. Hope this helps and best wishes on the water.

[tincanary]

IAR is instant anti-reverse, non-IAR uses a ratchet anti-reverse. So here is where things get confusing, the 2500C IAR nomenclature was used for Japan market reels in gray only, in export models, it was the 2500CI. The 2500C IAR was made from '94 to '02, but at the same time, models that were instant anti-reverse didn't have the nomenclature, these were the color models. Black, red, green, blue, and gold. They came in aesthetically different combinations too, some had the Heritage side plates that are beveled like the classic Ambassadeurs, and others had the flat Chevron style. Silver/gray is the only model with the IAR nomenclature on the side plate. On that note, the 2500CI also came in gray, green, red, and gold and CI was stamped into the side plate. The last run of the 2500C, for '08 and '09, reverted back to the ratchet anti-reverse along with the 4.7:1 gears. The IAR models are 5.3:1.

Now this is where you decide how to approach a potential project. If you play the long game, you will come out cheaper in the long run. Find a nice set of side plates and build off of that. Every part is available for these in the aftermarket. If you buy a nice condition reel, gray will by far be the cheapest. Even then, a mint gray 2500C/2500C IAR will run $200 to $300. You can find new old stock gray IAR side plates for less than $100 per set, you just have to look really hard. If you want a color reel, then you're looking at the middle 3 figure to low 4 figure range just buying a nice one. If you can find color side plates, and they do come up, you'll be looking at $200 or so for a set.

Another model to consider is the thumb bar 1600C IAR and 2600C IAR. They're peak small Ambassadeur, a true pleasure to use. You aren't going to turn one into a 6 oz feather like you can a pushbutton model, but the operation is so much better. Those require patience because prices are all over the place. Some people ask $300 for them and somebody else might ask $800. Patience wins when looking for those, they pop up semi-regularly on Yahoo Auctions for $400 or less.

I've built out plenty of these reels and they are my favorite. I own a lot of other round reels like Daiwa Millionaires and Calcutta Conquests, but these small Ambassadeurs just strike a chord with me. The thumb bar models feel just as refined as anything modern while the pushbutton models feel primitive by comparison. Here are some pictures. If you look at the 2600C IAR brake plates below, the pinion yoke keeps the gear better centered giving a much smoother operation.

2500CI on the left, 2600C IAR on the right


My 1600C and 2600C IAR. Both have Avail parts and quite fun to use. The 1600C has 6.1:1 Avail gears while the 2600C is running the OEM 5.3:1. Both have the Avail 2BB cog, level wind, and line guide. The 1600C has a 1520R spool and 1520PE mag brake, spooled with #0.8 YGK. The 2600C has a 2540R, so it's a deeper spool and that is running 8lb Berkley x9 (#1.0).


This 2500C IAR is all Avail parts. The only parts that are OEM are the side plates, pinion yoke, and pushbutton. It weighs 6 oz on the dot, 3.3 oz less than a 2500C IAR.


This is my other 2500C IAR, built similarly to the reel above. The primary differences aside from the color, this one has a shorter 70mm handle, factory 5.3:1 gears, and a centrifugal brake instead of a mag like the storm trooper above.


Pick my brain, I've been doing these for some time.

[Big-Bass]

IAR is instant anti-reverse, non-IAR uses a ratchet anti-reverse. So here is where things get confusing, the 2500C IAR nomenclature was used for Japan market reels in gray only, in export models, it was the 2500CI. The 2500C IAR was made from '94 to '02, but at the same time, models that were instant anti-reverse didn't have the nomenclature, these were the color models. Black, red, green, blue, and gold. They came in aesthetically different combinations too, some had the Heritage side plates that are beveled like the classic Ambassadeurs, and others had the flat Chevron style. Silver/gray is the only model with the IAR nomenclature on the side plate. On that note, the 2500CI also came in gray, green, red, and gold and CI was stamped into the side plate. The last run of the 2500C, for '08 and '09, reverted back to the ratchet anti-reverse along with the 4.7:1 gears. The IAR models are 5.3:1.

Now this is where you decide how to approach a potential project. If you play the long game, you will come out cheaper in the long run. Find a nice set of side plates and build off of that. Every part is available for these in the aftermarket. If you buy a nice condition reel, gray will by far be the cheapest. Even then, a mint gray 2500C/2500C IAR will run $200 to $300. You can find new old stock gray IAR side plates for less than $100 per set, you just have to look really hard. If you want a color reel, then you're looking at the middle 3 figure to low 4 figure range just buying a nice one. If you can find color side plates, and they do come up, you'll be looking at $200 or so for a set.

Another model to consider is the thumb bar 1600C IAR and 2600C IAR. They're peak small Ambassadeur, a true pleasure to use. You aren't going to turn one into a 6 oz feather like you can a pushbutton model, but the operation is so much better. Those require patience because prices are all over the place. Some people ask $300 for them and somebody else might ask $800. Patience wins when looking for those, they pop up semi-regularly on Yahoo Auctions for $400 or less.

I've built out plenty of these reels and they are my favorite. I own a lot of other round reels like Daiwa Millionaires and Calcutta Conquests, but these small Ambassadeurs just strike a chord with me. The thumb bar models feel just as refined as anything modern while the pushbutton models feel primitive by comparison. Here are some pictures. If you look at the 2600C IAR brake plates below, the pinion yoke keeps the gear better centered giving a much smoother operation.

2500CI on the left, 2600C IAR on the right


My 1600C and 2600C IAR. Both have Avail parts and quite fun to use. The 1600C has 6.1:1 Avail gears while the 2600C is running the OEM 5.3:1. Both have the Avail 2BB cog, level wind, and line guide. The 1600C has a 1520R spool and 1520PE mag brake, spooled with #0.8 YGK. The 2600C has a 2540R, so it's a deeper spool and that is running 8lb Berkley x9 (#1.0).


This 2500C IAR is all Avail parts. The only parts that are OEM are the side plates, pinion yoke, and pushbutton. It weighs 6 oz on the dot, 3.3 oz less than a 2500C IAR.


This is my other 2500C IAR, built similarly to the reel above. The primary differences aside from the color, this one has a shorter 70mm handle, factory 5.3:1 gears, and a centrifugal brake instead of a mag like the storm trooper above.


Pick my brain, I've been doing these for some time.

tincanary knows his stuff and builds great reels. Great post with great info.

[ras]

Thanks to both for posting.

Tincanary, I was hoping you'd chime in. Excellent info. Between IAR and non-IAR, how much of a difference in fishing experience is there, especially after extensive tuning with aftermarket parts? I sometime come across CDL notation in the model name – what does it stand for?

[tincanary]

CDL is the nomenclature for the 24k gold plated models. C which means ball bearing, and DL for deluxe, denoting the 24k gold finish. The CDLs were primarily sold in jewelry stores early in Abu's history. Functionally, they're the same as a standard 2500C. The IAR models have a longer driveshaft to accommodate the IAR bearing sleeve and different main gear blanks. The 4.7:1 gears used in the ratchet reels don't work in the IAR reels because of the way the gear blank was machined, there's a lip inside that interferes with the click wheel used in IAR models. This impacts maximum drag because the click wheel can't firmly contact the drag washer. However, the 5.3:1 gears used in the IAR models do work with the ratchet reels no problem. The Avail main gear blanks were modeled after the IAR main gear and work in both models. The rest of the stuff is the same.

Here's a 4.7 main gear on the left and a 5.3 on the right. Note the collar is thicker on the 4.7 gear. This is what interferes with the click wheel on the IAR models.


As far as fishing them, you can't really distinguish between them other than black play in the handle with the ratchet models. Casting and feel will be the same other than that.

[ras]

Thanks. IAR side plates come with anti-reverse clutch built in, don't they? If so, is it serviceable or do you just hope to get a good one when you buy a pair of old side plates? Apologies in advance if this is a poor question.

[tincanary]

I'll PM you where to get new old stock side plates. The Abu IAR bearings are really stout. Out of the countless Ambassadeurs I've serviced ranging from mint to beat, only one has a bad IAR bearing. That particular reel was used in the salt and put on a shelf for 20 years before it came into my shop. The bearing can be replaced, you just need to use a socket and press to push it out, and reverse to install the new one.

[ras]

I'll PM you where to get new old stock side plates. The Abu IAR bearings are really stout. Out of the countless Ambassadeurs I've serviced ranging from mint to beat, only one has a bad IAR bearing. That particular reel was used in the salt and put on a shelf for 20 years before it came into my shop. The bearing can be replaced, you just need to use a socket and press to push it out, and reverse to install the new one.

Many thanks, Tincanary. I sent you a reply.