Spiral Wrap Setup

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RGMatt
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All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby RGMatt » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:00 pm

I know all this was covered many times!

? 1. What was the rule of thumb for blank extensions. I want to extend a 5S66ML 2". I was thinking 4" inside and 2" out the butt. Then I read somewhere that 6 times the butt dia. is plenty. that would be just under 3". Am I splitting hairs here? I'll be using a scrap piece of SCIII blank that fits perfect.

? 2. I'm really leaning towards a spiral wrap on this rod. Not b/c I want to (would be my first) but all points lead to needing it on such a light tipped casting rod (T=3.5). Any info here would be beneficial. I know like 6 pages were lost on this subject alone.

What's the best method for a newbee?

any draw backs to the simple spiral? Should I offset the first guide off center and oppisite the wrap direction?

I wanted to do 7 guides + tip,I was planning on going w/ 8,7,6,5,5,5,5, which has worked on a couple rods I built in the past(on top).

This sound right or do Ineed a bigger stripper guide? maybe one more guide?

Let the static test show me where to go?

TIA I'm sure more ? will come up

Matt
Last edited by Mattman on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for content. Made sticky for informative content.

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby Mattman » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:16 am

RGMatt wrote:
? 1. What was the rule of thumb for blank extensions. I want to extend a 5S66ML 2". I was thinking 4" inside and 2" out the butt. Then I read somewhere that 6 times the butt dia. is plenty. that would be just under 3". Am I splitting hairs here? I'll be using a scrap piece of SCIII blank that fits perfect.


6X the blank OD at the joint is my rule of thumb for the overlap distance.


RGMatt wrote:

? 2. I'm really leaning towards a spiral wrap on this rod. Not b/c I want to (would be my first) but all points lead to needing it on such a light tipped casting rod (T=3.5). Any info here would be beneficial. I know like 6 pages were lost on this subject alone.

What's the best method for a newbee?

any draw backs to the simple spiral? Should I offset the first guide off center and oppisite the wrap direction?


I use a modified Roberts wrap. Postitions roughly at 30°, 80°, 135°, and 170°. All in the direction of the spiral. First guide 19” – 20” from the face of the reel. I mount my reel and tie off to something and reel up line several times to watch the flow thru the guides and make sure there isn’t line stacking.

I don’t like the sharp transitions of the simple spiral. It works, and many feel it works fine, I just don’t like the hard line transitions you get with it. I much prefer a gradual transition provided by the Roberts Wrap.


RGMatt wrote:

I wanted to do 7 guides + tip,I was planning on going w/ 8,7,6,5,5,5,5, which has worked on a couple rods I built in the past(on top).

This sound right or do Ineed a bigger stripper guide?


I’m of the opinion that you have more sizes than you need. I tend to like a larger butt guide so I’d have 3 total sizes. But if I were starting with a size 8, my next and final size would be the 5.


RGMatt wrote:

maybe one more guide?


1 guide per foot of rod length, plus one more guide is the rule of thumb I use for freshwater rods. I’ve rarely needed to stray from that.


RGMatt wrote:

Let the static test show me where to go?


Without question. I really think its foolish to go into a build with a set guide spacing in mind and a set number of guides. I have a good idea of what its going to take, but until I mount the reel and run line thru the guides and put a big load on the rod, I’m never 100%. I look for the line path, the angle between the straight sections of line and the guide ring, etc to respace guides or add or remove guides. There are so many variables like guide size, blank taper, reel height, reel width, handle length, etc.
Matt Davis
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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby I.C.M.A.B.B. » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:31 am

[/quote]
"I don’t like the sharp transitions of the simple spiral. It works, and many feel it works fine, I just don’t like the hard line transitions you get with it."

I 100% agree with Matt

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby jimmyb » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:41 am

I am currently doing a modified bumper spiral wrap on my castin g rods w/ micros. stripper guide is 30 degrees towards wrap direction. .#6 stripper to #4's to the tip.

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby Bigs|ick » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:10 am

You said 30 degrees off in the direction of the spiral?? That doesn't stack your line to one side of the reel?

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby Mattman » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:16 am

Bigs|ick wrote: That doesn't stack your line to one side of the reel?


It does not.
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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby RGMatt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:04 am

great info as always guys thank you.

just alittle more info as I know you guys are familar w/ this blank. the reel will be a pixy(presso spool), line will be 10/2-15/4 braid, never any bigger on this reel. I do use leader of 8-10lb copoly/flouro/mono, so there will be a connection knot. I'll be throwing a mix of hard and soft baits. So it will be a multi purpose rod for the light stuff.

You think I should jump up to a #10 size guide for the first? I do have extra #5 guides so I could try it a couple different ways.

I'll be sure to test everything before wrapping anything but this is a good start.

thanks again
Matt

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby jimmyb » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:19 pm

stripper guide is canted 30 degrees towards wrap direction. as for line stacking because of the stripper guide being "crooked", it really doesnt happen with modern reels

i, personally would use a 6 or 8 at the biggest for the stripper guide on that rod. but that is my preference

use an albright knot with 10-15 wraps and trim the tag ends of the fluoro leader very close to the knot and you shouldnt have any issues with passing the knot thru the micros

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby RGMatt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:29 pm

jimmyb wrote:stripper guide is canted 30 degrees towards wrap direction. as for line stacking because of the stripper guide being "crooked", it really doesnt happen with modern reels

i, personally would use a 6 or 8 at the biggest for the stripper guide on that rod. but that is my preference

use an albright knot with 10-15 wraps and trim the tag ends of the fluoro leader very close to the knot and you shouldnt have any issues with passing the knot thru the micros


Cool I'm gonna try it a couple different ways... right now I set it up w/ rubber bands and went w/ a couple extra 5's and got rid of a 6 from what I was originally planning. I'll do some test casting in the yard and go from there. Tommorrow I'm hittin the river though!!

thanks
Matt

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby jimmyb » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:04 am

RGMatt wrote: Tommorrow I'm hittin the river though!!

thanks
Matt



i am jealous... i could hit the river here, but it would hurt!

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Re: All the lost threads! Sucks

Postby Mattman » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:31 am

RGMatt wrote:right now I set it up w/ rubber bands and went w/ a couple extra 5's and got rid of a 6 from what I was originally planning. I'll do some test casting in the yard and go from there.


Too many people DON'T do that. Too many people just want to hear an answer and then use it. With guide spacing, guide sizing, and spiral placement. You need to decide for yourself the best setup for you. And you're well on your way to doing that. Getting out in the yard and casting and pitching to targets is by far the best way to figure out how your guide package should be set.
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Re: Spiral Wrap Setup

Postby donholton » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:51 am

Great thread! Until this year I really didn't use the simple spiral . I have just finished 10 light or ultra light baitcasters for white bass fishing and I have found on these small diameter blanks the flow of line with a simple spiral can be very straight with the 1st and 3rd guide offset 30' inthe direction of line flow and using the smallest bumper that will keep the line off the blank. I have never had any problem with line stacking with an offset stripper, but the heaviest bait I usually throw is a 5/16 oz ball head jig ,with 8 lb line tops, though I usually use 6 or 4 lb and 1/4 oz. The snow is about gone and as soon as the river clears it will be time to look for pre-spawn fish. I can't wait.

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Re: Spiral Wrap Setup

Postby Drewbass » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:48 pm

What are the best applications for a spiral wrap? I'm in the process of building a 5C70MHF for fishing 3/8-1/2oz football jigs. My plan was to use 4.5 tktsg guides on the top, but I'm contemplating running a spiral for this application. Does the direct of the spiral matter for a LH reel? Also would it be ok to use a 4.5 for the stripper?

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Re: Spiral Wrap Setup

Postby jimmyb » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:03 pm

spirals should be rotated in the direction of the reel seat. This will allow the rod to lay flat on the deck of the boat.

I think spiral is the way to go for most "tip up" applications.

I am still building some of my crank rods (generally fished tip down) with guides on top, especially if the Guy fights the fish with the rod to the side.. most guys I know fight the crank fish with the tip buried, so spiral really doesn't really help

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Re: Spiral Wrap Setup

Postby fshn4lmt » Tue May 31, 2011 4:47 pm

Simple spiral/revolver method.........its all personal pref.I have built both,and have nothing but good things to say about both methods.Just some food for thought here,Keep your stripper a little bigger,6/8 and if the rod flexes past 50%(Like a slow glass or ML or real parabolic) I would use a double foot for your stripper.You can the transition to all same size or if you prefer 7-6-5 to tip.If you are lefty-then spiral to the left.Just know that if you dont like the rod,lefty is a tough sale.
Also,the simple spiral is as good as forhans revolver method for sure.Remember,there is a reason they are called "Custom" rods.Rich Forhan starts his revolver at 18 inches(stripper) and then every 6 inches on the transition guides.No one says thats what you have to do.He also used a ton of double foot guides,again-not what I would do.
I have built a ton of simple spirals,and if the transition is too sharp on a rod,then I will shorten the spiral from 12inches down to 10 inches(meaning that there is only 5 inches to the bumper) this has been great on Seekers or other Glass blanks.If you want the lightest rod you can build-then by all means use as few guides as possible,use micro's and wrap them to suit you.And good luck!


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