Thread finish epoxy

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maibinenu
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Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:38 am

HI
I just decided to begin building my rods ....probably winter is to blame...
Need some tips in order to get the best components in the market.
fIrst , thread finish epoxy
What would you recommend ?
Some requirements i have in my mind would be : Transparrency, UV ressistant, flexible enough to not hear the epoxy when casting, ability to preserve its transparency .....
any advice would e welcome

Thank you !

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ogrich31
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by ogrich31 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:37 am

Most rod building epoxy will react pretty similarly imo. If I build multiple rods with different epoxy finishes, you probably wouldn't be able to tell which epoxy I used. My advice is to pick one and learn it. I use Prokote, Envirotex Lite (not marketed for rod building) and Flex Coat Ultra V. All epoxies will yellow, with or without uv inhibitors, although some faster than others. I'd recommend you use Prokote (Medium build, which is actually lighter than every "light" build I've used). Prokote will give you more working time, but the drawback is that it also takes longer to cure. Keep the excess so you can see how far the epoxy has cured. I like to use multiple thin coats (2 coats for most guide wraps, but I've used up to 5 for longer wraps). If I wanted to do it in one coat, I'll use Envirotex Lite or Flex Coat Ultra V as both are more of a high build.

Prokote is also pretty flexible, whereas Envirotex Lite is much harder compared to every rod building finish I've used. Flex Coat is in the middle.

Also, i try to keep my epoxy fresh by buying smaller bottles. The hardened will yellow if you keep it for too long.

As a side note, I've also heard great things from many people about D2 UV epoxy, although your working time is only about 10 minutes.

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Mattman
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by Mattman » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:11 pm

ogrich31 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:37 am
My advice is to pick one and learn it.
Totally agree

I think there is much more to be said for your comfort level and proficiency with a product than how it stacks up against another one.

I once knew an accomplished builder that raved about whatever finish he used. It was a reputable big name finish. He always seemed to build rods that appeared to be exercises in "how much can I do to this rod". Over done. When I finally got to see one of his builds up close and personal, I was underwhelmed. His finish application/technique was terrible. Lumpy/wavy finish. I know it wasn't the fault of the finish. He was just not good with it, or didn't take enough time to learn it.
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mobass11652
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by mobass11652 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:45 pm

I personally like Threadmaster but if you wait till February you will be able to procure a new product,Gen 4. It has all the qualities of Threadmaster without the bubbles. You will be able to get it from Bingham Enterprises.

If you are wanting to get a product right away, go with Threadmaster.

I tried Pro Kote but it didn't work for me, I don’t care for it’s cure time and it seemed too soft for my liking. Flex coat can yield some exceptional results, however it tends to yellow more than I care for. Threadmaster meets my requirements and produces the results I demand.

maibinenu
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:50 pm

Thank you guys for the answers , really help. Due to many products on the market, I wanted to narrow the array of choices and be sure to pick up a good epoxy.
just ordered a Forecast wrapper/dryer and meanwhile read/watch to learn about rod building.

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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by edwelch1 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:15 am

Another option not mentioned here yet is U-40 Permagloss.

I just got a rod building kit last August with the intention of starting to build rods for myself and family members/friends, and I've only built one rod so far. Naturally because of that, my experience is limited, so keep that in mind, but I figured I would still throw my two cents in, since I also did a ton of research before undertaking my first build.

My own personal style is very minimalist; my intention of getting into rod building is to be able to build as lightweight of a rod as possible for myself, without any bells and whistles in terms of decoration, because the decoration doesn't help me catch fish lol. I intend to essentially use "unfishined"/raw blanks, use minimal black or clear (silk) wrapping thread, and high end titanium guides (planning titanium torzites for a summer rod), with minimal grip materials. Just pure function. Although there's not going to be much of a difference in weight compared to other options, Permagloss goes on in very thin coats, so it allows me to keep my wraps looking as thin as possible, and I like that aesthetic.

It's a one part urethane finish, and is a fast curing material. Comes in a little bottle, and reminds me of liquid bandage type stuff, or a thin nail polish. In my opinion, it was very easy to work with, though your mileage may vary. Having my rod rotating in a dryer, I found it easy to slather it on the wraps, getting a uniform coat, wiping the brush off then using the brush to take off excess for a very thin and even coat. It's nearly dry to the touch after like 30 minutes in thin coats, and ready for additional coats. Each coat dries much thinner than what it looks like when wet, so I think I used like 4 coats on the rod that I built, and there still wasn't much of a build-up; not enough to see a visible clear layer, just looked like a very neat application of electrical tape almost.

For me at least, I like how it applied much better than I think I would like other two-part products. Being applied in such thin coats, there's not much leveling to worry about, if at all. Since I also don't have a very good rod dryer setup (just the most basic CRB dryer), it's also nice that the coats dry very quickly, so I don't have to worry about each coat very long; although it mostly dries in like 30 minutes, it probably doesn't need rotation much past like 5-10 minutes when applied in thin coats. There's also less worry, at least for me, about mixing materials properly because it's a one part finish, and since it's like nail polish, you don't need to worry about the working life of a mixed batch of two-part epoxy to get all of your guides done in time. You can just take your time in between guides if you really want, just need to put the cap back on the bottle, and I really like that aspect. Also, at least in my experience, no issues worrying about bubbles very much because it goes on so thinly.

As for removal if you screw up, I don't think it's much worse than "normal" thread finishes. I actually ended up breaking the one rod I completed (result of me trying to re-purpose an old blank, nothing to do with the Permagloss), and I was pretty easily able to remove the guides for future use just like any other guide removal.

Only other warning I would give is that it is flammable. I was dumb and not thinking about it, and I had a little thread fizzy that I tried to burn off like 15 minutes after I applied the first coat; it was still somewhat wet and it flared up pretty good, making me scramble to put it out lol.
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by Hobie-Wan Kenobi » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:37 am

Definitely get fresh epoxy. I used some stuff I thought would still be good...it turned out brown. They are personal use rods so, I dont care too much.
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maibinenu
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:12 am

ogrich31 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:37 am

Also, i try to keep my epoxy fresh by buying smaller bottles. The hardened will yellow if you keep it for too long.

As a side note, I've also heard great things from many people about D2 UV epoxy, although your working time is only about 10 minutes.
I have Envirolite for some years and the hardener is kind of yellow
can still be used ?
Although I measured exactly with syringes and mixed thoroughly until clear again , the applied coat finished a little sticky.
could be because of the epoxy ,,age''?

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ogrich31
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by ogrich31 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:44 am

maibinenu wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:12 am
I have Envirolite for some years and the hardener is kind of yellow
can still be used ?
Although I measured exactly with syringes and mixed thoroughly until clear again , the applied coat finished a little sticky.
could be because of the epoxy ,,age''?
No, age shouldn't affect the epoxy from curing. All hardeners will yellow eventually, whether in the bottle or on the rod. I've had crystallized resin bottles that I microwaved to melt the crystals, and I had no problems with them. I've also used epoxy that have been sitting there for years, to the point where the harden was amber, with no issues.

How long has it been since you applied it? I find that in colder temps, it can take up to twice as long to cure sometimes. If you're certain that you got the exact amount and mixed throughly enough, then temp would be the only other factor. But we all make mistakes, even guys like me who build everyday. I also don't believe humidity plays a roll in how epoxy cures.

I keep the room at 70 degrees, and I warm my epoxy before mixing. Be warned though, the more you warm it, the faster it will gel up. I also mix for longer than most people do, for 5-10mins. Last year, I must have gone through 4 32oz kits of Envirotex lite with no issues. Also, how much epoxy are you mixing? I like to mix no less than 3cc's of each parts to be safe, although I'm usually mixing more.

maibinenu
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:07 am

I mixed up only 2 cc of epoxy , (I know that smaller quantities means more space for errors , however using syringes i had no problem with this amount with other brands...)
there are already 8 hours since the applying, should be enough to be cured at touch...it is hard at touch but a little sticky
reading their instructions, the only thing i didn't do was mixing in the second cup after mixing in the first one...and I admit i see no sense in this
with other epoxy no need for second mixing cup ....it is enough the exact measuring , thoroughly mixing until the mix is clear again without waves or bubbles.
the temperature is about 70...

i read also that they recommend to not be stored more than a year ....
flex coat recommend 2 years.....
that's why i thought the age may be an issue ...

i will repeat the process with 3 cc's....

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ogrich31
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by ogrich31 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:48 am

The epoxy should cure. For me, Envirotex is still tacky at 8 hours. My 2nd coat doesn't usually go til the next day (24 hrs). I also feel it cures hard enough to fish at around 24 hours. With a temp 70 degrees or higher, of course.

I'm unsure about the expiration date, but I have an old (5+ years) and opened bottle of Envirotex lite that I can test if you'd like. Let me know.

maibinenu
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:08 am

If it's not a trouble for you it would be of great help.
I have an unused 16 oz package and want to know if I can further rely on it or not.

Thank you !

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ogrich31
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by ogrich31 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:11 pm

maibinenu wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:08 am
If it's not a trouble for you it would be of great help.
I have an unused 16 oz package and want to know if I can further rely on it or not.

Thank you !
I mixed 2 different batches: one from a new bottle and one from an opened 5+ year bottle. Both cured at the same rate. Both are slightly sticky, I can still leave finger prints on both. The room is currently 64 degrees, and it's been a little bit over 8 hours. This is completely normal for this temp btw.

If I kept the temp around 80 degrees, it would probably be hard to the touch by now. I've also used this epoxy with temps around 50 degrees and it took twice as long to cure. Sometimes when I'm in a rush, I'll leave the rod in a hot car after the epoxy has gelled. But I only do this when a customer needs the rod asap.

Good luck with your build.

maibinenu
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Re: Thread finish epoxy

Post by maibinenu » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:51 am

Thank you !
helped a lot
I noticed also that the cure time was just much longer than expected ....but now is ok.... safe at tocuh , not sticky anymore
just need more patience to cure ..

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