13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

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JWR075
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13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by JWR075 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:46 am

Is this blank material called PYROFIL? Reason I am asking is that a famous Japanese Rod builder is going to be using this material in one of its blanks. Will it be the P330 series of CF?
Last edited by JWR075 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by 13Fishing » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:33 am

JWR075 wrote:Is this blank material called PYROFIL? Reason I am asking is that a famous Japanese Rod builder is going to be using this material in on of its blanks. Will it be the P330 series of CF?
JWR,

Sorry, for the delay in response. Most of us in the office have been out and about, touring the fishing world. Trying to finalize a few things before the big launches hit us in the next few months. I'll owe you a question for that delay, so think of a good one and I'll do my best to answer.

We are in fact using Pyrofil from Mitsubishi Rayon on a few of our blanks going forward. The first two rods you will see from us utilizing MR Pyrofil carbon fibers are the Archangel and the MUSE.

The Archangel will be constructed of Pyrofil MR70. We wanted to utilize the CNT technology that the Japanese manufactures have been successful with as of late, and the MR70 allowed for the best strength/balance. The MR70 creates a blank with a unique 'feel' (I know, it's a subjective term), as it allows an engineer to truly maximize the action of a blank. It gives the rod an 'it' factor that we've not experienced before. Where the majority of blanks fall short on achieving true potential is the material, not the action, as they get weighed down with a balance or strength issue (hence a tip heavy rod, when it's overall very light). The MR70, and most of the Pyrofil materials, allow our engineers to get that true feeling, the balanced tool in your hand approach, without sacrificing too much on a key attribute. If you get the chance to hold an Archangel, all of this rambling will make sense. :lol:

The P330 is a fantastic material as well, and you will see it featured on another series at ICAST. It allows for a better strength to modulus ratio, without the use of a hybrid or altered resin. It will give us a blank with strength and balance at a price point that will be offensive to the competition...which I love.

By the way, how do you feel about beautiful (think 4A) cork handles? You seem to be quite the intelligent and enthusiast style angler, would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by JWR075 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:19 pm

Top quality cork rocks. The one thing about cork though is it needs sealing and many companies do not seal it leaving it up to the buyer to do. It would be great if cork handles came sealed from the factory. I would be willing to pay an extra few bucks so that I would not have to do this after buying a rod. http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/U-40_Cor ... -CORK.html

Oh a little product suggestion, why not bring out a silver and black carbon fiber handle for the Concept reels that match the reel seats of the Envy and Omen rods.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by hawkoath » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:04 pm

I second that suggestion. Through trial and error that I really enjoy carbon fiber handles over traditional cork.

JWR: I wish I knew about that cork seal before. It takes forever to get the grime off some of my rods which is another reason I prefer carbon fiber.

Btw: Do any retail stores carry 13 Fishing Reels/Rods in store in WA? I don't remember seeing any at all but always wanted to try them out.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by sarcazmo » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:32 am

Kind of an odd question but here goes. Do you guys have rod engineers on staff? I know there's a few in the bass fishing world, and some more in the Fly and salt world. Or do you relay the the information, actions, etc to the manufacturer and go from there?

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by JWR075 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:54 am

hawkoath wrote:I second that suggestion. Through trial and error that I really enjoy carbon fiber handles over traditional cork.

JWR: I wish I knew about that cork seal before. It takes forever to get the grime off some of my rods which is another reason I prefer carbon fiber.

Btw: Do any retail stores carry 13 Fishing Reels/Rods in store in WA? I don't remember seeing any at all but always wanted to try them out.
The Cabela's in Washington (4 of them) are listed as 13 Fishing dealers.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by hawkoath » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:48 am

I've only been to one Cabela's but don't remember seeing any in-store, but I'll check again.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by 13Fishing » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:43 am

hawkoath wrote:I second that suggestion. Through trial and error that I really enjoy carbon fiber handles over traditional cork.

JWR: I wish I knew about that cork seal before. It takes forever to get the grime off some of my rods which is another reason I prefer carbon fiber.

Btw: Do any retail stores carry 13 Fishing Reels/Rods in store in WA? I don't remember seeing any at all but always wanted to try them out.

There are four Cabela's in the state that carry the 13 lineup. Depending on which one, it varies from ice to a full assortment. Although, our West Coast is coming on-line as we speak, as we are going to focus on that market and territory in the coming 12-18 months (yes, it has been sorely neglected by us here in Florida).

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by 13Fishing » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:58 am

sarcazmo wrote:Kind of an odd question but here goes. Do you guys have rod engineers on staff? I know there's a few in the bass fishing world, and some more in the Fly and salt world. Or do you relay the the information, actions, etc to the manufacturer and go from there?

Not an odd question at all, in fact, it's a fantastic one to find out if someone is "real" or just an OEM homer. :)

I have a past life before this that only a few on the board know, designing product for the big boy of the industry. Given the amount of staff and engineering at my disposal then, it was evident the first rounds of hiring would revolve around that style of a team. Having said that, our team now consists of three engineers. Two working on the durables side. One on graphite applications and the other (a former disgruntled big two from Japan) on gearing. The third is a biomedical man that we just added here in Tampa (Jose Chavez). Take a guess what that last one may be for... :-k

On top of that, our man in charge of reel development and design (Matt Baldwin) ran the largest reel repair shop on the East Coast for the past 17+ years. Consulted for almost every big boy on the planet at one time or another.

It's a story we don't tell often, and maybe one that we should. Although, I find a few of the threads with guys guessing where/how/who builds our product to be hilarious. We aren't generally the boasting type; however, I appreciate this question as it gives me a chance to brag on them for a change...certainly doesn't happen enough (that would be my fault).

Thank you again for asking, anything else you'd like to know, we are here.

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by sarcazmo » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:38 am

Thats pretty awesome. Do your engineers have a fishing background as well?

Can you expand a little bit on some of the concepts you're incorporating into your new rods? I'm not familiar with Pyrofil, CNT technology, MR70, P330, and zonal axis technology?

I'm not sure I understood what you wrote earlier, but with the use of these materials a resin won't be necessary to achieve the same strength/modulus ratio?

I think all this stuff is pretty fascinating. The amount of work etc that goes into fishing rods is pretty crazy.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by 13Fishing » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:39 am

sarcazmo wrote:Thats pretty awesome. Do your engineers have a fishing background as well?

Can you expand a little bit on some of the concepts you're incorporating into your new rods? I'm not familiar with Pyrofil, CNT technology, MR70, P330, and zonal axis technology?

I'm not sure I understood what you wrote earlier, but with the use of these materials a resin won't be necessary to achieve the same strength/modulus ratio?

I think all this stuff is pretty fascinating. The amount of work etc that goes into fishing rods is pretty crazy.

Yes, they all have outdoor backgrounds. And they all certainly love to fish (sometimes it's hard getting them to sit in the office to work). Our newest biomedical one also comes with an enthusiast view, he's one of the major contributors to saltyshores.com...we certainly believe in hiring those with a passion for our sport. Not like designing a roll of toilet paper, there must be a desire for the industry to succeed (in my history and opinion).

There is always a purpose for a resin, I meant in the sense of a hybrid or "special" (read reduced) resin. The P330 material is light and strong enough to create a blank that doesn't require alterations. The MR70 is a latest and greatest kind of thing. On average, MR70 is 20% stronger and 10% higher modulus (think lighter, more sensitive) than an IM such as P330. CNT refers to carbon nano-tube technology, very similar to what 3M touts in the world (just another name). Combining that with MR70 is basically the bees knees.

The ZAT refers to a process in which one of the engineers that came to us from another world (golf) was able to apply a new layout that made a blank far superior to anything we've toyed with. You'll constantly read about linear or hex patterns, etc., all of which are great in their own ways. What Leo (engineer) did was apply the benefits of the different properties to the appropriate sections of the blank. You no longer have a mandrel laid with the same pattern the entire way. The idea of a "continuous" action is somewhat obsolete, and frankly 1980 parabolic nonsense. Golf has it right. There's a back end for power, a mid section to provide your transfer (prevents unnecessary flex or twist), and a tip to generate your accuracy and control. There are a few shaft companies that will name it something different in that world, they all revolve around the same theory. Leo borrowed that theory and viola, you have the Archangel (and soon to be MUSE).

Of course, this is just our process. There are plenty of fantastic companies out there building amazing rods using different methods. In the end, it all comes down to each of us trying to make the fishing experience better. If that happens, we win.

Thanks,
Jim

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by JWR075 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:17 pm

Jim, when the Muse comes out (assuming you were referring to the Black since the Gold is already out in catalogs) will they be "generic lengths, taper and power or will they be more technique specific? I guess my "free" question is just that will we see technique specific rods coming from 13Fishing for us bass fishermen. Also please remember us UL fishermen down the road. Would love to have an UL 2pc Omen spinning rod that could handle 1/32 weight.

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by Tom13 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:30 am

JWR075 wrote:Jim, when the Muse comes out (assuming you were referring to the Black since the Gold is already out in catalogs) will they be "generic lengths, taper and power or will they be more technique specific? I guess my "free" question is just that will we see technique specific rods coming from 13Fishing for us bass fishermen. Also please remember us UL fishermen down the road. Would love to have an UL 2pc Omen spinning rod that could handle 1/32 weight.
Hint: Australian Models

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by sarcazmo » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:23 am

Pretty fascinating stuff.

Any considerations to selling blanks?

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Re: 13 Fishing Mitsubishi graphite

Post by JWR075 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:04 am

Tom13 wrote:
JWR075 wrote:Jim, when the Muse comes out (assuming you were referring to the Black since the Gold is already out in catalogs) will they be "generic lengths, taper and power or will they be more technique specific? I guess my "free" question is just that will we see technique specific rods coming from 13Fishing for us bass fishermen. Also please remember us UL fishermen down the road. Would love to have an UL 2pc Omen spinning rod that could handle 1/32 weight.
Hint: Australian Models

Thinking more how Megabass markets rods for a particular type of fishing like work, jig, flat side, deep diving, spinnerbait, etc.

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