Who is the MOST over rated ?

[hoohoorjoo]

Do trolls get banned around here or nah

Time always tells.

[hoohoorjoo]

Personal comments have no place in forums like this.

Neither do abrasive personalities, purposefully provoking arguments.

[ShimanoFan]

No Loomis or Kistler. And I have no idea who the other guy is. I was offered a new Kistler that was a $250 rod for $130, which for $130 to me would be worth it. I had a Ex6 Loomis, but for the money, I hated the rod. Just felt crummy to me. Honestly, what isnt over priced now a days. The cost usually doesnt reflect the advantage the rod will give. I mean, you could take a $50 and fish braid and its sensitive. People think Im nuts with what I do with reels, and that Im OK with spending more money on the reel than I do on the rod. To each his/her own, and I dont care either way. I just think that, using Loomis rods as an example, spending $300-500 on a rod that is not a "custom", to me, is nuts.

I hear ya, and I never pay retail either. I buy wholesale if new, but I prefer the used tackle market big time. For example one G.Loomis rod I bought recently came out of a pawn shop for $10 in perfect condition. I sold it later that same day for $80. Retail on it was $225. It was a broomstick and just too stiff for my tastes. I don't use any heavy rated rods any more. I am more of a MH to M to ML these days.

Here in Florida pawn shops are seasonal. Guys buy up rods and reels for summer, and then when fishing season is over and winter is setting in, they need some money and fishing gear floods into the pawn shops towards end of year and Christmas time. Just like clockwork you pick up some really nice stuff if you know what to look for...

Most pawn shops don't look at the rod for pricing, they look at the reel. I've watched them do this too. A guy brings in a rod and reel and the clerk goes online to look up the reel to price the combo. Sometimes it is a $25 used reel on a high end rod. Been blessed many times this way... Custom rods, Kistlers, G.Loomis, and the list goes ever on...

One of these days you gotta try a custom spiral wrap. They are addictive. And people think I am crazy when I take a $350 custom rod and start stripping the guides off it to turn it into a custom custom spiral wrapped rod. Got one now in line for that and I am building an old G.Loomis and a Graphite USA spiral wrap set of rods right now. Can't wait til they are done.

I just got back from fishing a spring fed chain of lakes- with a couple members from here- using my crystal spiral wrapped rod. It sings to me with every cast. I do reels too, but I focus much more on the rod when fishing. Reels are sooooo over rated!

Check your national chain pawn shops in your area on a regular basis. Here in central Florida the Cash Americas and Value pawn stores are practically side by side all over town.

Oh and LMG, I gave SFRick a disc with more than 1,000 bathymetric maps to lakes in central and South central Florida. There was some extra room on the disc so I threw on some music from artists I worked for over the years. Ask Rick to borrow the disc and copy all of it to your laptop and save it. Some kick azz stuff in there for Southern rock and blues fans...

[ShimanoFan]

Personal comments have no place in forums like this.

Neither do abrasive personalities, purposefully provoking arguments.

Well then you don't know me because that is not what I do. I post information. I do not ever say one word about any members, nor do I put them down as seen in this thread towards me. And nothing I write is purposefully provoking anything. That comes from those who either don't want to read more than 2 sentences, or those who have some problem with the information and decide to go after the messenger.

Making people think is far different than causing trouble. That is for those who post personal comments about other members in violation of the rules around here. Admin can read and see who does what.

As I said personal comments directed at other members have no place here... the "you need to do better research" or you are a troll or whatever people can dream up with the intention to direct it at others is controlling. Content controlling and should not happen ever.

If you don't like something, don't read it. Pass it on by. This is a word forum. It is DESIGNED for typed words. This forum is designed for information to be shared. All this personal back and forth is a waste of time and energy.

Are we here for tackle or what?

[ShimanoFan]

You do know Trey Kistler isn't a blank builder, right? I wouldn't include him on a list with Gary Loomis, he almost ruined his business by going cheap when it came to blanks in order for higher profit.

I was thinking about your comment while fishing today... you did bring up a good point. A great point actually.

Not sure how to put this... you are right that Trey does not make rod blanks, but his father most certainly had his hand in it, maybe not for Kistler directly at their location, but from where he came from he most certainly did have hands on in rod blank construction big time.

But here is the thing about American rods... there are men who actually make the rod blanks as in hands on, and then there are the businessmen who are the facilitators of rod blank construction. And without them, there would be no blank building. Gotta have a company.

And some of the names I mentioned, if you knew their history, I noticed you picked out just one, Trey Kistler, but in my list are a couple more men who did not actually have hands on in rod blank construction. They facilitated the rod blank construction through their companies.

Take Morgan McCain for example. He never made a rod blank himself personally. He had no clue. But he gets credit for it because he is the businessman who created AllStar Rods in Texas and brought into his company G.Loomis blanks. If you buy an AllStar rod that says "made in USA" then more than likely you are indeed buying a Gary Loomis rod made for Morgan McCain who is credited with the creation of making rods for specific presentations. Now everyone is doing it. Morgan McCain got that credit.

He facilitated the creation of unique rods.

Another name on my list definitely deserves credit for what he did that is still mostly unknown to the outside world. Brett Chapman. He also was not a hands on rod blank builder, but as a facilitator, he most certainly was and is credited with rod blank creation.

Brett bought AllStar rods from Morgan. And when Brett took it over he made the decision to stop buying G.Loomis rods and instead hired the same man who started BOTH of Gary Loomis companies with him- LCI and G.Loomis, the secret man behind the scenes who actually built the rod blank facilities all over Texas, Oklahoma, Washington, Oregon, and other places. These same factories are still churning out rods to this day for numerous brands. Kistler was buying from him and hands on in the design and blank construction process same as when he was with Castaway and before.

Point of comment is there are only a few actual hands on rod blank builders of note out there. Gary Loomis is one, Richard Kantner is another. TV is another... but there was really only one man who built the rod blank factories, and he also made rods as well for Brett Chapman. My most prized rod comes from these two men. Batson is another. A rod blank builder has to have a company to work for. And the men who run those companies may not be out there making the rods by hand like those they employ, but they are every bit as responsible for the creation of those rods as the hands on men are.

And for the record, I don't own any Chinese Kistler rods.

And, I also don't believe half of what Trey Kistler said in his "history of" I posted earlier either. It is interesting to note, the man behind the scenes who built most of the rod blank factories across USA still operating today is the same man who started both companies with Gary Loomis. This tells me Gary was the rod man, but the other man was the factory creator from which men like Gary Loomis and others could do their magic within. It all goes together. And Trey's father most definitely deserves credit for his rod designs made by the same people we see in the background of so many other great rods.

Today when I buy a brand new blank for my own custom rods, I will go straight to North Fork and Gary Loomis as top dog today. Best of the best right there. I also tap into secret unknown stockpiles of much older classic rod blanks from Lamiglas and Gary Loomis and others that have been sitting in warehouse for 30 years or so. Really cool to be able to go in and take my time examining those vintage rod blanks and taking my pick. This stuff just is not available these days unless you know people and know where to look. ebay works too!

The rods these men designed and created are not over rated... under rated if anything which is in my favor big time...

And keeping this um thread on track... rods with guides on top are so over rated! Spiral wraps are the only way to go...

[Poisson]

And keeping this um thread on track... rods with guides on top are so over rated! Spiral wraps are the only way to go...

Definitely need to try a spiral wrap at some point. Do you prefer spiral for certain presentations only, or across the board?

[ShimanoFan]

And keeping this um thread on track... rods with guides on top are so over rated! Spiral wraps are the only way to go...

Definitely need to try a spiral wrap at some point. Do you prefer spiral for certain presentations only, or across the board?

It is across the board from a technical engineering point of view. There are 2 main reasons to go with spiral wrap:

1)To eliminate negative rod blank twisting under load.
2)To reduce line friction under load.

[ShimanoFan]

You do know Trey Kistler isn't a blank builder, right? I wouldn't include him on a list with Gary Loomis,

You know, after reading a lengthy history written by Trey Kistler I have to change my mind about him. He is doing the same thing his father did and for that he does deserve to be on the list with Gary Loomis:

"Back to the Perfect Storm… I had been dreaming about producing our own graphite blanks ever since Factory A had abandoned us and what better time to do it than now. We hired a 30 year veteran graphite blank engineer, placed cash deposits on machinery in the amount of $75,000 and began the expensive expansion plans to build our own blanks. Well, if you remember the crash of 2008, you will understand how it all just fell apart for Kistler Rods and we lost every penny of that investment into the future."

Sounds like a rod blank builder to me! Just like his father before him... and then this:

"After a chance meeting that only God could have arranged with the legend Gary Loomis in the airport on my way back from the 2009 ICAST, I began a relationship with him and his new company North Fork Composites . That next week I had one goal in mind, to work toward building the perfect bass blank. Gary and I met eye to eye and face to face the following month to developed 6 different bass specific actions using his highest modulus graphite materials and proven expertise. My dream was to offer the serious angler a totally new rod concept using Gary’s 35 years of experience in the graphite business and my 18 years of experience in the rod business. After 9 months, we had done what we set out to do and unveiled the new Z bone LE rod blanks in March of 2010."

I think at ICAST this July I will stop by Kistler and thank Trey! He does belong on the list! And I'd be all over those Kistler-Loomis rods... right up my alley. I wonder what is different about these rods from what North Fork is producing???

If it is anything like my helium blanks then hell yeah!

[LgMouthGambler]

No Loomis or Kistler. And I have no idea who the other guy is. I was offered a new Kistler that was a $250 rod for $130, which for $130 to me would be worth it. I had a Ex6 Loomis, but for the money, I hated the rod. Just felt crummy to me. Honestly, what isnt over priced now a days. The cost usually doesnt reflect the advantage the rod will give. I mean, you could take a $50 and fish braid and its sensitive. People think Im nuts with what I do with reels, and that Im OK with spending more money on the reel than I do on the rod. To each his/her own, and I dont care either way. I just think that, using Loomis rods as an example, spending $300-500 on a rod that is not a "custom", to me, is nuts.

I hear ya, and I never pay retail either. I buy wholesale if new, but I prefer the used tackle market big time. For example one G.Loomis rod I bought recently came out of a pawn shop for $10 in perfect condition. I sold it later that same day for $80. Retail on it was $225. It was a broomstick and just too stiff for my tastes. I don't use any heavy rated rods any more. I am more of a MH to M to ML these days.

Here in Florida pawn shops are seasonal. Guys buy up rods and reels for summer, and then when fishing season is over and winter is setting in, they need some money and fishing gear floods into the pawn shops towards end of year and Christmas time. Just like clockwork you pick up some really nice stuff if you know what to look for...

Most pawn shops don't look at the rod for pricing, they look at the reel. I've watched them do this too. A guy brings in a rod and reel and the clerk goes online to look up the reel to price the combo. Sometimes it is a $25 used reel on a high end rod. Been blessed many times this way... Custom rods, Kistlers, G.Loomis, and the list goes ever on...

One of these days you gotta try a custom spiral wrap. They are addictive. And people think I am crazy when I take a $350 custom rod and start stripping the guides off it to turn it into a custom custom spiral wrapped rod. Got one now in line for that and I am building an old G.Loomis and a Graphite USA spiral wrap set of rods right now. Can't wait til they are done.

I just got back from fishing a spring fed chain of lakes- with a couple members from here- using my crystal spiral wrapped rod. It sings to me with every cast. I do reels too, but I focus much more on the rod when fishing. Reels are sooooo over rated!

Check your national chain pawn shops in your area on a regular basis. Here in central Florida the Cash Americas and Value pawn stores are practically side by side all over town.

Oh and LMG, I gave SFRick a disc with more than 1,000 bathymetric maps to lakes in central and South central Florida. There was some extra room on the disc so I threw on some music from artists I worked for over the years. Ask Rick to borrow the disc and copy all of it to your laptop and save it. Some kick azz stuff in there for Southern rock and blues fans...

I've actually got 2 custom spiral wrapped rods built by Lee Smith. One on a Liberty blank, and one on a Point Blank blank. They are cool, no doubt.

I wish we had the pawn shops down here like you have up there. Rods and reels here are mostly just garbage, and very few. Near the beach area,its mostly salt water stuff, and garbage at that too.

I hear ya on going lighter a bit. I have a few stout sticks for when the time calls, but been enjoying the challenges of fight on lighter stuff not having to worry about tournament fishing. (Been done with tournament fishing for a long time, but was hard to break the "drag them out" habit). That is where the recent UL style fishing came in to play down here for me big time.

I'll have to get with Rick, or have him make me a copy as I'm barely able to work in the dang forums. Lol. (I'm not a technical person).

[ShimanoFan]

A liberty blank huh? Cool. That one is made by a friend of mine at GBO... someone I have known for many years and buy from myself, but I have yet to use his liberty blanks. He knows I am a Loomis fan and when I go into his shop I am there for North Fork only.

The Liberty blanks are made in USA, but the Point Blank rod I am not so sure about. I did a quick search and could not find any mention of where the blanks are made, but the company is in Foley, Alabama. So Southern is good...

And one day I'd like to see how Lee does his spiral guide design... he and I got along real well over there... a cool old guy. Hope his health improves...

As for Liberty... I'd give them a try, but it is so hard to even buy one of those when I walk into his shop and staring me in the face are all those Gary Loomis blanks... if I got money in my pocket to buy a blank, how can I walk past Gary Loomis and buy a rod blank made by someone else? Really tough for me to do. And I have never done it, but maybe it is time... next time I am in his shop I'll handle the liberty blanks and feel them out for myself...


As for over rated LMG, one of your members from your other online haunts left one of his rods and reels in my SUV down at the tournie on Tenoroc last weekend. And since it will be a couple of weeks before I see him again to pick it up, I decided to do a surprise overhaul on the reel. It was already on one of my custom spiral wraps I gave to him, so the rod is done, but the reel is a KastKing made in China reel. Claims to have 11.1 bearings inside. I am still counting... Not sure how they got so high a number there yet...

And just yesterday I was out on the Winter Park chain of lakes fishing and another one of your other haunts members was in my boat and brought another KastKing reel with him and he had nothing but trouble and backlashes from it. He never could get it dialed in right. One backlash after another... Meanwhile me and my Shimanos, not one single backlash yesterday...

I told him don't ever buy cheap chinese junk! And he said but it had such great reviews... yeah? by who? I'd never spend one penny on any of those reels. So maybe KastKing is waaaaay over rated too. The one I have apart on the bench at home has a plastic frame. Yuck.

[LgMouthGambler]

A liberty blank huh? Cool. That one is made by a friend of mine at GBO... someone I have known for many years and buy from myself, but I have yet to use his liberty blanks. He knows I am a Loomis fan and when I go into his shop I am there for North Fork only.

The Liberty blanks are made in USA, but the Point Blank rod I am not so sure about. I did a quick search and could not find any mention of where the blanks are made, but the company is in Foley, Alabama. So Southern is good...

And one day I'd like to see how Lee does his spiral guide design... he and I got along real well over there... a cool old guy. Hope his health improves...

As for Liberty... I'd give them a try, but it is so hard to even buy one of those when I walk into his shop and staring me in the face are all those Gary Loomis blanks... if I got money in my pocket to buy a blank, how can I walk past Gary Loomis and buy a rod blank made by someone else? Really tough for me to do. And I have never done it, but maybe it is time... next time I am in his shop I'll handle the liberty blanks and feel them out for myself...

Definitely get a hold of Rick and get a copy of that disc! Those maps are priceless! Most of them are sourced from government agencies and are official maps used for water flow hydrologists, scientists, engineers, and lake watch program and everyone in water who is anyone of import uses those government produced maps because they are the most accurate maps available. Navionics and google are just now catching up to adding in depth info from on site measuring added to their satellite imaging which is seriously lacking in detail and accuracy. So those maps will show you holes and things on the bottom satellites will never show. Valuable maps for us fishermen to have.

And the music is worth it too... bands and artists you never heard of before like Chris Hicks who is now carrying the load in the Marshall Tucker band with Doug Gray. I use to work with Chris in his solo bands when he live in Macon, Georgia. I am on at least one of his albums. He is a great songwriter, great arranger, great guitar player, and has a great voice. The whole package in one man. And I send down with Rick some of his solo albums which are very rare.

Another artist in there to listen to is Chris Anderson, another Southern guitar player who is presently performing in the new OUTLAWS band from Tampa area. His one and only solo album is in there. A fantastic rare album... Chris gets shocked when fans show up to his shows and actually have one for him to sign. He is like "where did you get this?" Warren Haynes liked it so much he covered one or more of Chris songs from that album in his solo band Gov't Mule.

You will find Floyd Miles song Going Back To Daytona on there with some of the Allman Brothers on it... Floyd grew up in Daytona with Duane and Gregg Allman. I worked with Floyd when I did live sound for some of the artists on his former record label KingSnake Records out of Sanford Florida. Great Southern rock and blues on there you never heard so definitely get a copy from Rick...

As for over rated LMG, one of your members from your other online haunts left one of his rods and reels in my SUV down at the tournie on Tenoroc last weekend. And since it will be a couple of weeks before I see him again to pick it up, I decided to do a surprise overhaul on the reel. It was already on one of my custom spiral wraps I gave to him, so the rod is done, but the reel is a KastKing made in China reel. Claims to have 11.1 bearings inside. I am still counting... Not sure how they got so high a number there yet...

And just yesterday I was out on the Winter Park chain of lakes fishing and another one of your other haunts members was in my boat and brought another KastKing reel with him and he had nothing but trouble and backlashes from it. He never could get it dialed in right. One backlash after another... Meanwhile me and my Shimanos, not one single backlash yesterday...

I told him don't ever buy cheap chinese junk! And he said but it had such great reviews... yeah? by who? I'd never spend one penny on any of those reels. So maybe KastKing is waaaaay over rated too. The one I have apart on the bench at home has a plastic frame. Yuck.

The Liberty build is pretty slick. That blank is tough. Its a 734 supposedly, but I have had that thing bent over with 65lb braid pulling big bass out of mats countless times. Swore that thing was gonna break, but it wont. Like the fact the tip is not "broomstick" like, but the balls of the blank is killer. Its spiral wrapped too with Fuji Torzites.

I dont even want to know who is using a KK reel over there. Do him a favor and toss it in the garbage. The good reviews are basically paid, or people that dont know any better.

[Fishing4Fun]

Maybe a few members in this thread should just exchange numbers

[LgMouthGambler]

Maybe a few members in this thread should just exchange numbers

I hate talking on the phone. But I'll sit here and BS all night on a forum.

[ShimanoFan]

I hate talking on the phone. But I'll sit here and BS all night on a forum.

Yep! And LMG, there are two members from over there using those KastKing reels... both here in central Florida too.


Thanks to another thread to remind me that 13fishing stuff is over rated big time. Can't believe they actually tried to tell everyone their plastic bushing is better than bearings... but, the saltwater guys around here like them because they don't rust up. They view those reels as use and toss kind of thing. Not something to repair or maintain. Just buy them, use them until they stop or fall apart and then toss them. More cheap chinese junk heaped upon us Americans who will buy anything!

[LgMouthGambler]

I hate talking on the phone. But I'll sit here and BS all night on a forum.

Yep! And LMG, there are two members from over there using those KastKing reels... both here in central Florida too.


Thanks to another thread to remind me that 13fishing stuff is over rated big time. Can't believe they actually tried to tell everyone their plastic bushing is better than bearings... but, the saltwater guys around here like them because they don't rust up. They view those reels as use and toss kind of thing. Not something to repair or maintain. Just buy them, use them until they stop or fall apart and then toss them. More cheap chinese junk heaped upon us Americans who will buy anything!

Yeah. And the reel they use them in is stupid expensive. I do think the bushing thing they have going is good for the salties though. Softer than say the regular bushing.

Next time you see them 2 guys, slap them upside the head for me. Hell, at least put a dang SLX in their hands or something would ya?