Spy Bait Reel - High End

This is the place to talk shop about all the enthusiast and import tackle for the truly afflicted
HobeyBaker
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by HobeyBaker » Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:19 am

reason162 wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:59 am
LowRange wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:34 am
Hijacking to ask a bait question. I forgot three baits where a thing until now. Are these any good early season after ice out up to pre spawn or are they more of a fall lure? Looking to add to my early season arsenal.
High sun flat calm middle of Summer technique for me, and anytime you're dealing with suspended smallies.
That scenario works too especially on Lake Michigan where the water is crystal clear year round. Our inland lakes have algae blooms starting around the beginning of June where there's not enough visibility for the technique.

reason162
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 752
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:39 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by reason162 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:45 am

HobeyBaker wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:19 am
That scenario works too especially on Lake Michigan where the water is crystal clear year round. Our inland lakes have algae blooms starting around the beginning of June where there's not enough visibility for the technique.
Yeah definitely clear water is a must!

Tim Kelly
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:44 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Tim Kelly » Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:54 am

I'd have a hard time getting anything other than a 4000 certate. I really like that reel. I'm not a great Shimano fan, the bail arm looks too fine and the position of the bail is more touchy than Daiwas. My shimanos snap closed when I'm casting more frequently than my Daiwas when I've opened the bail at the wrong part of the rotation. I expect the exist is sublime, but too expensive to be a value choice. The Daiwa UTD, or whatever they call it is astonishing, far better than any other reel I've used (not used a stella, which are supposed to be superb). I have a Luvias, not the airity, and while it's nice and light it doesn't have the feel of the certate, I suspect the airity might be similarly hollow feeling?

HobeyBaker
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by HobeyBaker » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:39 am

Tim Kelly wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:54 am
I'd have a hard time getting anything other than a 4000 certate. I really like that reel. I'm not a great Shimano fan, the bail arm looks too fine and the position of the bail is more touchy than Daiwas. My shimanos snap closed when I'm casting more frequently than my Daiwas when I've opened the bail at the wrong part of the rotation. I expect the exist is sublime, but too expensive to be a value choice. The Daiwa UTD, or whatever they call it is astonishing, far better than any other reel I've used (not used a stella, which are supposed to be superb). I have a Luvias, not the airity, and while it's nice and light it doesn't have the feel of the certate, I suspect the airity might be similarly hollow feeling?
I know what you're saying about the hollow feeling as I had a regular Luvias LT. The Airity model is an Exist and doesn't feel hollow.

Cranky
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 am

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Cranky » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:44 am

reason162 wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:58 am
Cranky wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:43 am
Most people aren’t even talking about the same “winding” thing anyway but if you line up a set of Exist/Airity/Certate vs Stella/Vanquish, actually wind them, there’s no question the Shimanos have a lower resistance, lighter touch, airy winding feel.
The people responding in this thread have tested the Daiwas and Shimanos side by side - I certainly have. And the Stella - with its heavy aluminum rotor - is by far the least "airy" winding reel of them all. That's not a bad thing, and I would argue it actually feels more "refined" on a steady retrieve technique like spybaiting. It seems Shimano feels the same way, as they explain the different design philosophy behind the Vanquish and Stella -
We clearly aren’t talking about the same perceived smoothness/Airy-ness/refinement. To me there is no question which has less resistance between the 22 Exist and 22 Stella for example. It’s not even close. I’m just being objective with all of the reels I’ve personally fished. They’re all very very nice reels and yes I also own and fish both brands a ton myself from Exist/Stella on down the lineups. Do some digging into the Ultra Light world and you’ll see their findings align with what I’m saying in terms of lightness of winding feel/resistance… which would be important to me personally when fishing spybaits… and I’ll also be the first to say that for typical bass fishing most people absolutely will not notice any difference. My 2 cents, take it or leave it.

Drakestar
Platinum Angler
Platinum Angler
Posts: 889
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Drakestar » Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:06 pm

Cranky wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 6:43 am
Like I said, I’m willing to acknowledge it’s not a popular opinion on TT. Lots of Daiwa users will not agree, that’s fine. Most people aren’t even talking about the same “winding” thing anyway but if you line up a set of Exist/Airity/Certate vs Stella/Vanquish, actually wind them, there’s no question the Shimanos have a lower resistance, lighter touch, airy winding feel.
I consider myself more of a "Shimano guy" (in high-end spinning field I have a Stella FJ, FK and an Excense A, and I only own one '22 Exists), and I disagree with that. I like the way the Shimano reels turn, but IMO they have a way more connected feel than the Exists. Meaning: the Exists turns way easier, with less start-up inertia. I don't necessarily like that feel (because you need to be extra careful to not overcrank or reel in too much line too quickly), but I do think that there IS a question whether "Shimanos have a lower resistance, lighter touch, airy winding feel". From my experience (and from what I've read elsewhere), the opposite is actually true :)

Cranky
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 am

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Cranky » Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:43 pm

I’m just calling it like I’ve seen it. I’ve used all the same reels, read all the same marketing hype… I’m comfortable defending my personal observations and I’m fine if others have different experiences with it. There’s variation reel to reel but mine are very cut and dry. There’s a very obvious reason Daiwa put light oil in the Presso for the ultra light market and didn’t replicate the Exist/Airity/Certate.

Put it on a rod, balance it on your finger at the balance point to isolate the winding resistance, and reel it at slow/medium/fast speeds.

Again, all great reels. I’m not anti-Exist/Airity/Certate at all, they’re spectacular. Just making a recommendation based on the OP. Your mileage may vary.

Sorry for the hijack Hobey, for 4000-size, spybaits, and light fluoro I still think the 23 Vanquish 4000MHG is the reel to beat even for diehard Daiwa fans.

reason162
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 752
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:39 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by reason162 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:27 pm

Cranky wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:44 am
We clearly aren’t talking about the same perceived smoothness/Airy-ness/refinement.
Evidently so, as I have no clue what you're actually talking about at this point. What's interesting is you lump the Stella and Vanquish together in the same category of "airy winding feel," when one has a rotor 3x the weight of the other. What do you imagine contributes the most to startup inertia when you turn the handle on a spinning reel?

Cranky
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 am

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Cranky » Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:34 pm

I did preface this entire thing by saying this isn’t a popular TT opinion because I was aware the vast majority will immediately chime in arguing about it. Im not even referring to start up inertia, I said winding. Like winding in a spybait. I’m a big fan of the Exist and Airity, but I’m also objective and I just don’t think they’re the absolute best reel for spybaiting. This isn’t a new or contradictory opinion in the Ultra Light world where people are actually very nit picky about this. This is a well known comparison between the high end reel models and if you feel like going down the rabbit hole feel free to do your own research. I happen to agree with the UL crowd based on my experience and it’s less relevant the bigger you go in baits/applications. I still consider proper spybaiting to be more similar to an UL cranking application.

As for the Stella vs Vanquish, I never said they were identical, just that they both have lower winding resistance/feel than Daiwa mag seal reels. There’s more to it than just the weight of a rotor unless all else is equal (Stella and Vanquish being the obvious example). The Vanquish has the lowest of all. Stella and Presso are relatively similar (due to Daiwa’s elimination of mag seals and “tractor grease” as some of the Ultra Light crowd will probably get the reference).

It’s just one attribute of spinning reels that some people care about and some don’t. With under-5# line on a 6’ UL class area trout or Ajing style rod it’s a pretty big deal but on a 7’6” M class rod most people DO NOT care.

HobeyBaker
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by HobeyBaker » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:13 pm

I ended up ordering the 21 Airity. I felt comfortable with the reel since I have the high speed version and I like how the gear ratio is 5.2 vs 5.7 on the Vanquish. There was a 10 cm difference in line per turn between the two.

The shallow spool recommendation did pique my interest though. I see that Hedgehog carries both Ocean Studio Mark and the SLP Works EX LT 2. Does anyone have any experience with the Ocean Studio Mark?

Cranky
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 am

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Cranky » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:29 pm

Nice grab, the 21 Airity is an awesome, cost effective choice right now for sure.

I’ve got the previous model SLP Works 2500SS spool that I love for the smaller sizes. I run it off/on with a 22 Exist, the main difference being the previous drag sound isn’t as good (18 Exist, 21 Airity, etc) as the 22 Exist. The new 22 SLP Works spool you know 100% what you’re getting into and how they will perform relative to the stock spool (same drag and sound as 22 Exist).

The Studio Ocean Mark spools look pretty wild but I have/had no need for the waterproof drag and if you get one for spybaits make sure you obviously get the SS-spool / Smooth drag setting and not the S-spool / T-power version.

Pastrmka
Senior Angler
Senior Angler
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: Spy Bait Reel - High End

Post by Pastrmka » Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:18 am

I have 2 spinning reels , 19 vanquish and 20 Luvias (not airity) and when it comes to lightness of rotation vanquish is better. Luvias does feel smoother. For spybaits i prefer vanquish due to better line management with fluorocarbon. I think daiwas magseal on main shaft impacts winding resistance to a degree. Daiwas reels marketed with light resistance like presso do not have magseal

Post Reply