WHY are there no short enthusiast pitching sticks?!?!

[BassKat]

Where are the fast to extra-fast enthusiast-level heavy pitching sticks less than 7'? Preferably 6'8" to 6'10" for tip-down frog walking with very high sensitivity to detect light jig pickups.

Prior threads mentioned Fuego, Tatula, and Mojo Bass, but I'm looking for far more sensitivity. Also, options like the Legit Wild Side, Mat Bucker Type L, and P5 Super Destroyer were mentioned, but I want a true fast to extra-fast (no fast-moderates).

The Steez Frogger C67MH-FR was suggested, and I thought that was it! Then, I saw it was a medium-heavy. Power-wise, I'm looking for a traditional heavy rated to throw up to 1.5ozs and turn large fish away from heavy cover. I won't use this rod for fishing deep in the slop so I want to stay away from extra-heavys with swimbait-like weight ratings.

There's an Orochi XXX Cover Hacking, but some have said it's a bit light powered. Plus, I'm not sure if it's a "US" fast and it would be a settle-for in the sensitivity department assuming it's similar to XX.

Really, the P5 Super Destroyer would be perfect if it was a US fast action.

It's baffling that such a stick doesn't seem to exist in any line. I'm very afraid to go JDM because typically the actions are fast-moderate at the fastest.

It's been a couple of years since those old short frog rod threads, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any thoughts. My gut tells me if someone would make an enthusiast-grade 6'9" Heavy to Heavy+ with a US fast to x-fast action and a pitching tip it would sell extremely well.

[Johnny A]

The G-Ax by MB was 6'7" but that was a long time ago ...

[BassKat]

In MB, something in that 5.5 - 6 power would probably be about right if it were a US fast to x-fast rather than their usual fast-moderate. I see this as an unexplainable hole in the market given lots of people like to work their frogs tip-down. About 6'10" is my limit to do that comfortably.

[Cranky]

Evergreen Rapid Gunner (true USA X-fast tip)

It’s technically a 7’0” but will fish about 6’10” with perfect balance. One of the best frog/jig rods ever made. I’d recommend the HD version for those applications, which has double footed guides (RSR is the same rod with single foot guides).

That’s the rod you want.

[HellaBread]

Where are the fast to extra-fast enthusiast-level heavy pitching sticks less than 7'? Preferably 6'8" to 6'10" for tip-down frog walking with very high sensitivity to detect light jig pickups.

Prior threads mentioned Fuego, Tatula, and Mojo Bass, but I'm looking for far more sensitivity. Also, options like the Legit Wild Side, Mat Bucker Type L, and P5 Super Destroyer were mentioned, but I want a true fast to extra-fast (no fast-moderates).

The Steez Frogger C67MH-FR was suggested, and I thought that was it! Then, I saw it was a medium-heavy. Power-wise, I'm looking for a traditional heavy rated to throw up to 1.5ozs and turn large fish away from heavy cover. I won't use this rod for fishing deep in the slop so I want to stay away from extra-heavys with swimbait-like weight ratings.

There's an Orochi XXX Cover Hacking, but some have said it's a bit light powered. Plus, I'm not sure if it's a "US" fast and it would be a settle-for in the sensitivity department assuming it's similar to XX.

Really, the P5 Super Destroyer would be perfect if it was a US fast action.

It's baffling that such a stick doesn't seem to exist in any line. I'm very afraid to go JDM because typically the actions are fast-moderate at the fastest.

It's been a couple of years since those old short frog rod threads, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any thoughts. My gut tells me if someone would make an enthusiast-grade 6'9" Heavy to Heavy+ with a US fast to x-fast action and a pitching tip it would sell extremely well.

When you start getting into niche rod lengths/power combinations that’s when you might wanna consider doing a custom build whether it be yourself your commissioning a build. Outside of that if you ever get the chance to try a jdm taper rod i’d highly recommend you do so because depending on the rod it’ll behave much differently on the water than youd imagine by just reading the stated taper and typically most of the JDM rods will actually have deflection graphs so you can more accurately see how the taper progresses. I ended up liking it much more than I ever thought. For reference I primarily do saltwater bass fishing in socal where bottom contact + bite sensitivity are key (most of them take it on the drop or in the current so semi slack/slack line bite detection is a giant bonus) as well as having power to pull fish out and away from the rocks/other hard structure. I’ve never once have felt that any of my jdm taper rods were lacking in power or sensitivity compared to my US F/XF rods.

also example of a deflection graph I mentioned above for the Steez C610H Harrier which seems right up your alley

[HellaBread]

If open to different tapers another you might wanna check out is the p5 tachyon shaft which was pretty much built for what you described

[BassKat]

Thanks, Cranky! So, I've been eying the Rapid Gunner, which seems like a dream JDM jig rod. Although I know it's so light it feels smaller, for this specific rod, I feel like 6'10" is about my limit. Although I know it's not as advanced, I've actually been hunting the Rapid Gunner's predecessor, the Gunslinger, which is a perfect 6'10" in length. I found one on eBay, but the price was nearly $650 with shipping, which wouldn't make sense at nearly the price of the Rapid Gunner. I'd rather build this rod if I have to and then buy the Rapid Gunner to go alongside it.

HellaBread, on tapers, I hear you. So far, the tapers that I've liked that are not solidly fast or extra fast include some of the MagBass tapers and tapers seen on the Steez AGS line. I consider those fast-fast/moderate tapers, and I'm apt to be okay with that range, but... The danger is that if I'm aggressively fast-stroking a jig at the top of a rod's weight range and get much bend, I invariably end up dumping the rod. Plus, for this rod's purpose, the taper must drive double frog hooks on strikes far away at the end of casts. Beyond those concerns, I'm not likely to have a problem with a deeper bend so long as it's under greater pressure such as the load of a fighting fish. I am not looking for a broomstick either so trying to walk the fine line.

[HellaBread]

The danger is that if I'm aggressively fast-stroking a jig at the top of a rod's weight range and get much bend, I invariably end up dumping the rod. Plus, for this rod's purpose, the taper must drive double frog hooks on strikes far away at the end of casts. Beyond those concerns, I'm not likely to have a problem with a deeper bend so long as it's under greater pressure such as the load of a fighting fish. I am not looking for a broomstick either so trying to walk the fine line.

That’s what you can use the deflection charts for. It’s not gonna be an exact science but you can roughly estimate how much force is going into working the bait and see where the bend of the rod will be according to the chart which can give you an idea if it’ll be close to your preference or not.

p5 tachyon shaft chart for reference

[Cranky]

EG Rapid Gunner.

If you’re really that hung up on 1-2” on a rod that’s gonna fish exactly like the 6’10” you’re looking for with perfect balance then like was mentioned, just get a custom made.

A true USDM X-Fast action in a JDM jig/frog rod isn’t something that grows on trees.

[HellaBread]

EG Rapid Gunner.

If you’re really that hung up on 1-2” on a rod that’s gonna fish exactly like the 6’10” you’re looking for with perfect balance then like was mentioned, just get a custom made.

A true USDM X-Fast action in a JDM jig/frog rod isn’t something that grows on trees.

honestly yeah and the price of a custom with a top of the line guide train is probably gonna be equal to or cheaper than most of the options we’ve been throwing out. NFC blanks are very good and perpetually on sale and if you can wait the atrocious fulfillment time you can probably find a blank that’s close to exactly what you want for cheap.

[dennis_rf]

Im looking for exactly such a short stick, as I want to skip and walk the bounty fish from the kayak with it, potentially all day. But didn’t want to spend the top dollars.

Interestingly enough, the Japanese frog rods are often only rated as MH or MH+ even though they are rated to 25lb max line and 2oz max lures.

I was able to find these short frog rods:
Daiwa Blazon 67mh-fr
Daiwa Black Label, several models
Daiwa Swagger 65MH-FR - this one is the only XF
Major Craft Benkei 69FR (30lb 3oz)
Major Craft Days 68FR (30lb 3oz)
Major Craft SPEED STYLE 69FR (30lb 3oz)
Jackall Revoltage 2 67MH+


I ended up purchasing the Revoltage even tho it’s a RF action. It’s quite light, rated up to 25lb 2oz max and I’ll trust the Japanese on this one. Jackall is a frog manufacturer so I hope they know to build the perfect rod for that. Further the description explicitly says it’s made for walking the dog. Will arrive in a couple of days, will document the action under load.

I did look into the custom option but couldn’t locate a blank that fits the bill, at least in Europe with very limited availability.
What NFC blank would you guys go to for the OPs specifications?

[HellaBread]

Daiwa Swagger 65MH-FR - this one is the only XF

The line rating to power rating difference is due to the japanese standardized system for rating is different than the EU system or the US system. Also just remember that the stated power and action of any production rod is kind of arbitrary because one companies mh might be another’s H or XH etc etc you never really know until you actually fish the rod and get a feel for it. Same when it comes to action/taper because a japanese XF is very different than what most people in the states know as a XF hence why op specifically stated US f/xf

the deflection chart posted here is what megabass labels XF (xbites)

[BassKat]

HellaBread, comparing deflection charts looks like a great way to at least get in the ballpark.  

Dennis, I looked, and there wasn't an NFC X-Ray blank, the only NFC blank I considered.  If you don't need maximum sensitivity, you could cut about 5 inches off NFC's MB 739-1 blank (only available in the SM and IM lines).  I started a thread about this potential build under ShopTalk>CustomRods, and there are some blank discussions occurring there viewtopic.php?f=57&t=90218  

Although this particular rod being for tip-down frogging and kayak use likely barely rules out the Rapid Gunner, I want it bad as an adjacent rod.  Cranky, it looks like a decent portion of the RG is allocated to handle. If you have a measurement from the trigger to the tip, I'd appreciate knowing that length.

Right now, I'm leaning toward a used EG Gunslinger (if I can find it) or a custom build unless someone sets forth another option.
Appreciating the great feedback!

[HellaBread]

Honestly you’re not losing much if anything in terms of sensitivity going down to an HM blank which has more options, I have serveral rods i’ve built with a range of different blanks and out of all of them for some reason my most used and favorite out of the bunch currently is a MB702 IM i cobbled together into a quick and dirty bfs build. Just because a blank is in the companies most expensive line does not necessarily mean it’ll be better than the lower line blanks they offer. Funny enough one of my x-ray builds is arguably the least sensitive rods I own when it comes to jig bite detection because it wasn’t designed for it. I’d also suggest you check out point blank rods.

[HellaBread]

also don’t let the seemingly low lure rating of point blank fool you those blanks have a stupid amount of power if you look at the ccs numbers.