Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

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tdm
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Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:25 am

Hello Everyone,

New to this site but been reading around here for a while now, I have the latest Metanium MGL and a Bantam MGL both
only about 2 months old, since I've been using both of them a lot lately ,I figured it's time to oil the brakes and put a
drop of oil (Bantam 100) into the non handle side plate bearings just like what it says in the maintenance instructions. I only
use Shimano reels and actually have a few of them and do this basic maintenance all the time but now both of the bearings
on both reels are making this "sandy/gritty" noise, All my other reels are just fine after doing the same thing for years.
I ended up ordering replacement bearings for both reels (BNT5806) to see if the noise goes away. What do you guys think?

Thank you guys.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by BRONZEBACK32 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:53 pm

I would have taken the bearings out and soaked them in acetone overnight, then let them dry and add 1 drop of oil
to each.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:38 pm

Thank you for the reply, I've done the bearing flush overnight way in the past with no luck but it doesn't mean i won't try it again.
Odd thing is, I called one of Shimano's satellite repair center I think the one located at SC and talked to this very helpful guy,
I explained to him the situation and knew right away what I was talking about, he then told me to never ever oil any of those bearings.. :shock:

Anyway, I'll just wait for the new bearings to come in and go from there, maybe I'll do some experiment and not oil the new bearings for a while just to see what happens.. :lol:

If I do however decided to flush the original bearings with acetone, do I need to remove the O-ring first or what?

Thanks

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by hoohoorjoo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:42 pm

The sandy/sandy gritty feeling has been discussed at length here. In many instances, it has been premature gear wear/failure. The micro module gears have had problems, so much so that many people put the equivalent brass Curado gears into other reels that had aluminum MM gearing. I wish they had never gone away from the HEG system. That was bulletproof gearing.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:03 pm

I have to agree with you on the HEG gears since I own 2 scorpion dc and they're awesome reels, but the noise issues I'm having with these reels aren't related to MM gears since it only started happening after I applied oil to these bearings and can hear it only while casting but smooth and quite during retrieve.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by hoohoorjoo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:21 pm

tdm wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:03 pm
I have to agree with you on the HEG gears since I own 2 scorpion dc and they're awesome reels, but the noise issues I'm having with these reels aren't related to MM gears since it only started happening after I applied oil to these bearings and can hear it only while casting but smooth and quite during retrieve.
Gotcha. I wonder why the reel tech said to NOT oil the bearings?
Also, could it be the blocks on the brake race squealing, not the bearings? You can rule that out by over-oiling the race and making a cast. It should go away if that's the culprit.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:55 pm

Well he told me that oiling those bearings washes out factory grease inside them, he said use the reels until bearings start making noise then just replace them, he also said once they start making those kind of noise no amount of oil will fix it :-k

I ruled the brake blocks out when I turned them all off and do a free spool (turning the handle then disengage the spool). Right then you can hear the noise much louder, you can also feel the bearing rattling. I can almost guarantee it's those bearings but will have to wait and see when the new ones are installed. Thanks.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by Bantam1 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:02 am

Is the bearing noise when casting or reeling?

The spool bearing (on the spool) is oil filled and tend to get a little noisy early and require routine maintenance. Once they start making noise it is time to replace them. We see some fail quickly, but the majority are fine.

The pinion and X-Ship bearings are grease filled and the tech said not to oil them because the grease makes them last longer. Especially in salt or brackish water. The pressure they are under allows grease to help them hold up longer. Oiling these bearings will lighten the rotation feeling, but the bearings will wear quicker. If you constantly apply oil to these bearings it will thin the grease to a point that it no longer offers support under a load. Then you get loud bearings. If you fish salt/brackish the salt can and will get into these bearings and make them noisy or corrode.

There is nothing wrong with MM gearing. The issue is the gears are so smooth to start with it is easy to feel wear, more so than with the old gearing. For example we do not see this issue with Antares and Conquest which actually have smaller MM teeth than the Curado, Chronarch, MET and Bantam reels. The tolerances in Conquest and Antares is about .0001"-.0002" for gear alignment. Excessive tolerance issues would cause the gears to wear quickly. The CU, MET and BANT all have very tight tolerances as well, just not as tight as the Conquest and Antares. This is why they have slightly larger gear teeth.

Proper grease application is critical with the MM gears. Too much and the reels will feel sluggish. Too little and the gears tend to wear a little quicker. The factory runs a minimal amount of grease, trending towards not quite enough. I have reported this to the factories and they are working on adjusting the amounts to improve durability. I know that when our repair department services the reels and replaces the gear sets we see longer life. We use slightly more grease than the factory does. Like I said, its a fine line to get it right.

Maybe I just need to start making videos on my own to show how to properly do all of this type of service and repairs.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:46 am

Thank you for the replay bantam1, been kinda waiting for your opinion on this one. The noise only happens when casting and as I mentioned before, the noise started right after I oiled these bearings, gears and x-ship bearings etc. are in good shape and very smooth when reeling on both reels. The replacements are on their way and I will give an update later.

I do however noticed a lot of vibrations on my metanium compared to my bantam when casting, Actually compared to all of my reels. That's at least my first experience with it out of the box even before this bearings issues started, is that normal?

I'm sorry if I'm being so picky about all this, After owning shimano reels from the chronarch mgl down to the casitas and not to mention spinning reels.. :lol: I expecting a bit more specially out of those bearings and to be honest the latest metanium mgl and the bantam mgl are worth the upgrade.. :big grin:

And yes it would be cool if you do a proper maintenance video.

Thank you.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by zalan » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:57 am

Bantam1 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:02 am
Maybe I just need to start making videos on my own to show how to properly do all of this type of service and repairs.
I think this would be popular here, at least I would watch all of them.

My highest-end reel ('15 Calcutta Conquest) was pretty dry out of box, needed to add some grease to the gears and after that it became super smooth. Before it was a bit rough and noisy.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by Bantam1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:59 am

tdm wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:46 am
Thank you for the replay bantam1, been kinda waiting for your opinion on this one. The noise only happens when casting and as I mentioned before, the noise started right after I oiled these bearings, gears and x-ship bearings etc. are in good shape and very smooth when reeling on both reels. The replacements are on their way and I will give an update later.

I do however noticed a lot of vibrations on my metanium compared to my bantam when casting, Actually compared to all of my reels. That's at least my first experience with it out of the box even before this bearings issues started, is that normal?

I'm sorry if I'm being so picky about all this, After owning shimano reels from the chronarch mgl down to the casitas and not to mention spinning reels.. :lol: I expecting a bit more specially out of those bearings and to be honest the latest metanium mgl and the bantam mgl are worth the upgrade.. :big grin:

And yes it would be cool if you do a proper maintenance video.

Thank you.
The spool bearing (one on the spool) is more than likely the culprit if it is making noise only on the cast. This is the most common bearing we see make noise after use. While we do not see a ton of them making noise, it is the most common one. The ratio of failures vs. how many reels we sell is still really low.

Vibration is tough. It could be how the line is loaded on the spool. It could be the bearing. It could be how you have the cast control tension set (allows spool to walk side to side in the frame if too loose).

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:07 am

Bantam1 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:59 am
tdm wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:46 am
Thank you for the replay bantam1, been kinda waiting for your opinion on this one. The noise only happens when casting and as I mentioned before, the noise started right after I oiled these bearings, gears and x-ship bearings etc. are in good shape and very smooth when reeling on both reels. The replacements are on their way and I will give an update later.

I do however noticed a lot of vibrations on my metanium compared to my bantam when casting, Actually compared to all of my reels. That's at least my first experience with it out of the box even before this bearings issues started, is that normal?

I'm sorry if I'm being so picky about all this, After owning shimano reels from the chronarch mgl down to the casitas and not to mention spinning reels.. :lol: I expecting a bit more specially out of those bearings and to be honest the latest metanium mgl and the bantam mgl are worth the upgrade.. :big grin:

And yes it would be cool if you do a proper maintenance video.

Thank you.
The spool bearing (one on the spool) is more than likely the culprit if it is making noise only on the cast. This is the most common bearing we see make noise after use. While we do not see a ton of them making noise, it is the most common one. The ratio of failures vs. how many reels we sell is still really low.

Vibration is tough. It could be how the line is loaded on the spool. It could be the bearing. It could be how you have the cast control tension set (allows spool to walk side to side in the frame if too loose).
Got the new bearings in and got them installed and it fixed the noise issues, since I didn't do anything with the spool shaft attached bearings, like oil them or anything then everything should be fine I hope. Only the brakes will be oiled from now on.

I set my reels up with just a little bit of side to side play on the spool but vibration seems to slowly disappear as I use the metanium more and more, maybe just need a little bit of break in peroid :lol:

Thanks for help.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by Bantam1 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:41 am

Eliminate any side to side play and there should be enough freespool that it will still cast very well. Side to side play can be the culprit of the vibration.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by tdm » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:15 am

Will do...Thanks.

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Re: Metanium and Bantam Bearings Noise

Post by Preston » Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:00 am

zalan wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:57 am
Bantam1 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:02 am
Maybe I just need to start making videos on my own to show how to properly do all of this type of service and repairs.
I think this would be popular here, at least I would watch all of them.

My highest-end reel ('15 Calcutta Conquest) was pretty dry out of box, needed to add some grease to the gears and after that it became super smooth. Before it was a bit rough and noisy.
I'd watch as well. I service my own reels. It's enjoyable to do the work myself and keep things performing well.

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