Antares DC 21 grease

[mss32dll]

Hello,
going to maintain my Antares dc 21, found in catalog schema with what should be greased and oiled, but could you please provide full list of Shimano greases and oils that I need for

Ball bearing
Break pipe
Spool shaft
Inner bearing of handle

Worm shaft
Clutch lever
Clutch cam??
Gear & gear pinion
Break control screw
Roller clutch
Drag nut

thanks a lot!

[Bantam1]

Here is what we recommend:

Ball bearing- Bantam Oil (one drop per bearing if needed)
Break pipe- No break pipe on DC reels as they use a DC unit
Spool shaft- Dry and clean no lubricant
Inner bearing of handle- Permalube

Worm shaft- Bantam Oil or very light application of ACE 0 with added bantam oil to reduce viscosity further (I mix my own version)
Clutch lever- ACE 2 applied to frame guard under clutch bar and cam. Enough to make operation smooth. Heavy application not needed.
Clutch cam??- See above
Gear & gear pinion- One half of drive gear teeth with ACE 2. No additional grease on pinion gear teeth. A light coat on the top of the pinion gear where it contacts the X Ship bearing to ensure smooth clutch operation.
Break control screw- Bantam oil if needed. Usually does not require lubrification and is not disassembled during service
Roller clutch- Permalube. If you are doing regular service I would advise you to leave factory lubricant in place and do not remove.
Drag nut- Light coat of ACE 2 if needed. Typically installed with no lube. Since the Antares DC is not rated for use in saltwater this can be used with no lube as there will be no corrosion issues.

[mss32dll]

Thanks a lot, Bantam1, for your answer, it was very helpful,

1) looks like I forgot to ask about drag washer grease and probably something else,

let's try to summarize, in order to maintain the reel I need:

ACE-2
Permalub (can I use something else?)
Bantam oil (+ACE-0 optional)

do I need something else?

2) saw in catalog "Reel oil Spray (sp-013a)" and "Reel grease spray (sp-213a)" are they applicable?

[Bantam1]

ACE0 grease for the drag washer.

The reel oil spray is just an aerosol version of Bantam oil they offer overseas. We do not have it in the US. I guess there are restrictions for bringing over the aerosol products to the US. The spray grease is more for spinning reels. I suppose it would work for other reels, but it is a very light grease. Too light in my opinion for conventional type reels. We have been trying to get the aerosol lubricants here since 2005. I do not know all of the details, but it seems like there will never be an option to get it here. That could change but for years the answer has been no unfortunately.

[mss32dll]

Got it, your answers are very helpful, thank you!

[HellaBread]

Here is what we recommend:

Ball bearing- Bantam Oil (one drop per bearing if needed)
Break pipe- No break pipe on DC reels as they use a DC unit
Spool shaft- Dry and clean no lubricant
Inner bearing of handle- Permalube

Worm shaft- Bantam Oil or very light application of ACE 0 with added bantam oil to reduce viscosity further (I mix my own version)
Clutch lever- ACE 2 applied to frame guard under clutch bar and cam. Enough to make operation smooth. Heavy application not needed.
Clutch cam??- See above
Gear & gear pinion- One half of drive gear teeth with ACE 2. No additional grease on pinion gear teeth. A light coat on the top of the pinion gear where it contacts the X Ship bearing to ensure smooth clutch operation.
Break control screw- Bantam oil if needed. Usually does not require lubrification and is not disassembled during service
Roller clutch- Permalube. If you are doing regular service I would advise you to leave factory lubricant in place and do not remove.
Drag nut- Light coat of ACE 2 if needed. Typically installed with no lube. Since the Antares DC is not rated for use in saltwater this can be used with no lube as there will be no corrosion issues.

Sorry to piggyback off this thread but what would you recommend for the roller bearing on an 22 exsence dc which is damn near the exact same reel for use in the salt. Permalub or NLTS2? i’ve been digging through a lot of threads and i’ve seen you say both will work but they have slightly different properties and I just wanted to know what is best for salt use.

[Bantam1]

We have been leaning more towards Permalub for the A/R bearings. The NLTS is close in performance, but really either will work for that application. I mix my own grease for the application, but it's a personal preference thing for me. I have been doing it for over 20 years now with no issues, but it's difficult to make in a small batch for the individual user. I mix a half liter container at a time and it lasts me a couple of years.

[HellaBread]

We have been leaning more towards Permalub for the A/R bearings. The NLTS is close in performance, but really either will work for that application. I mix my own grease for the application, but it's a personal preference thing for me. I have been doing it for over 20 years now with no issues, but it's difficult to make in a small batch for the individual user. I mix a half liter container at a time and it lasts me a couple of years.

I generally mix my own grease for other applications but the a/r bearing has always stumped me on what to use as there’s a lot of misinformation and fear of using grease which is a necessity for long term corrosion prevention in the salt as far as i’m concerned spread on forums since it really does not like most if any anti friction additives which are so prevalent in most greases people use which is why I wanted to ask you directly. Thanks for the info.

[Bantam1]

I use our ACE 2 grease and mix it with our Bantam oil. I couldn't give you an exact ratio as I mix it by feel so to speak. I use a light amount which keeps the bearing from corroding and it does not cause slip issues. One of the guys that used to work here when I started taught me and I have been using it ever since. I only use it on conventional/baitcast reels. Spinning I only add one drop of oil if needed. Typically we leave those alone because they are more sensitive to slipping with excess lube. If they are slipping or corroded we just replace them.

[HellaBread]

I use our ACE 2 grease and mix it with our Bantam oil. I couldn't give you an exact ratio as I mix it by feel so to speak. I use a light amount which keeps the bearing from corroding and it does not cause slip issues. One of the guys that used to work here when I started taught me and I have been using it ever since. I only use it on conventional/baitcast reels. Spinning I only add one drop of oil if needed. Typically we leave those alone because they are more sensitive to slipping with excess lube. If they are slipping or corroded we just replace them.

gotcha, I haven't had any issues with slipping I generally just wanted a grease solution that protects against corrosion and quiets down the clutch if I ever have to do a deep clean that involves the clutch, I used to use a light coating of oil like so many people preach across various forums but i found the corrosion protection lacking for anything beyond short term and it makes the clutch louder than I personally like so in the mean time i’ve been trying other light greases but again I haven’t been satisfied. Whether it’s your mix or the permalub/nlts2 how are you applying it? Are you brushing a small amount directly on the rollers or are you just coating the inner sleeve with a small amount.

[Bantam1]

I just use a q-tip and apply it to the rollers in a circular motion around the inside of the bearing. I found it applies evenly to the rollers and rolls the pins as I am turning the q-tip. Hopefully that makes sense. I turn the q-tip in the same direction that the handle will turn. Clockwise for RH and counter for left hand.

[tdm]

NGLI-0 too thick for AR bearing?

[Bantam1]

We only use and recommend what I have listed in this thread.

[Slazmo]

You can get greases rated down to NLGI 0000...

https://www.repco.com.au/oils-fluids/gr ... ODEALw_wcB

[HellaBread]

You can get greases rated down to NLGI 0000...

https://www.repco.com.au/oils-fluids/gr ... ODEALw_wcB

There’s a little more to grease viscosity than the nlgi rating. NLGI just determines the apparent viscosity and hardness of a grease in other words its texture and texture alone. The way they determine that number is literally by measuring how deep a cone under its own weight can travel into a testing container of the grease. The thing a lot of people gloss over is the base oil/kinematic viscosity, measured in centistrokes and the oil index number which is a value of how much the viscosity changes with temperature. Both of these are responsible for the “weight” of the grease and how it basically behaves. for example I have 2 greases I regularly use outside of reels both NGLI 0, krytox 203 and 207 and their base oils 103 and 107. The greases are equal in texture. if you were to scoop and play with them side by side they feel the same texture wise but if you get a tiny amount on your fingers and rub them together it’s very obvious one is heavier than the other even when comparing the lighter ones grease form to the base oil form of the heavier one. That viscosity value combined with any other texture modifying additives your grease may or may not contain which nlgi cannot measure causes issues people experience with roller clutches binding up and slipping especially if you live somewhere that actually gets cold.

TLDR grease is a never ending rabbit hole just use whatever works and/or what the reel and/or bearing manufacturer recommends for the roller clutch to save yourself a headache in most cases