12 Exsence feel on retrieve

[HellaBread]

Been a while since i’ve fished an older shimano and recently found a 12 exsence i forgot I owned in my fishing stuff drawer. With the drag cranked all the way down the handle feels slightly sluggish. It’s not totally binding up and can spin but there’s a slight noise almost as if something is rubbing slightly and small amount of felt vibration through the crank, when drag is backed off to around 75% or less then it frees up and goes away. Not sure if this is normal on the older designs that don’t have the top bearing support on the driveshaft or not as it’s been so long since i’ve both fished or worked on any of them since I mainly fish daiwas nowadays. If it is normal then it’s not a big deal.

Only thing I can possibly think of is maybe the dartanium washer under the main gear has been compressed too far but I did measure the thickness with calipers and it seemed normal. Any input is appreciated.

[Bantam1]

It could be the spring washers have compressed and is causing the drag star to physically touch the side plate. The drag washers can compress slightly as well. It's tough to get an accurate measurement because the material is a little soft. So you have two possibilities that are most common. I would start there first, replace the drag washers and check assembly of everything else.

[HellaBread]

Had extra spring washers on hand and swapped them as well as experimenting with adding an extra clutch tube washer to check if it was a drag star rubbing issue and it doesn’t seem like that’s the case so most likely the dartanium drag washer.

Side note do you guys have parts numbers for any cross carbon/dartanium 2/whatever official name washers that can be substituted for the following dartanium washer parts:

bnt3548 / 10CHZ
bnt4795 / 10CJ1

[Bantam1]

I can only go based on closest diameters which include the thickness of the washer.

10CHZ use 1071S is the closest but the inside diameter is larger. I have used these on some friends Core 100 reels with no issues.

10CJ1 use10CHY. This will have a smaller OD but the thickness is correct. It will not really affect the drag force or performance.

You may need to add the thin copper spacer BNT2128/105PW to get the drag curve a little higher. It depends on the tolerances of the reel. Some may need one, others may not.

[HellaBread]

Update, actually think It’s coming from the roller clutch. This one is coming out the side plate a little too easy vs any other shimano i’ve worked on (I can push it out with my finger) and the side plate may be cooked as the ridges holding the roller clutch aren’t even which is making me think it’s not holding the clutch in proper alignment which is affecting the gear alignment. Already have a new clutch on the way im just praying it’s not the side plate as getting another one is kind of a pain in the butt but not that big of a deal.

[HellaBread]

Maybe this was the reason why I shelved this thing years ago and forgot about it in the first place

[Bantam1]

There are tolerances on the side plate and roller bearing. Add a little ACE2 grease to the pocket if the new bearing is still loose. There are differences in the bearings for tolerances as well. There are also differences in the internal size of the rollers. One bearing may reduce handle turning force while another may increase it. This is why it's best to use the correct part from the schematic vs. one that is similar.

[HellaBread]

There are tolerances on the side plate and roller bearing. Add a little ACE2 grease to the pocket if the new bearing is still loose. There are differences in the bearings for tolerances as well. There are also differences in the internal size of the rollers. One bearing may reduce handle turning force while another may increase it. This is why it's best to use the correct part from the schematic vs. one that is similar.

roller clutch bearing to side plate fitment is comically loose as it currently sits, I can place the clutch into the side plate slot and get it almost to seated position with a gentle shake and when seated completely I can easily push it out of the side plate with my finger. If the new clutch doesn’t snugly fit and align properly this side plate is most likely cooked and the roller bearing slot is worn out. Can’t really complain since I’m not the original owner and this is a 2012 model that was used by god knows how many people in japan before it got to me years ago.

[Bantam1]

You would be surprised. I can grab a different bearing from our drawer and have it fit tight in a side plate like that. It happens as it doesn't take much difference in dimension to have a bearing fit loose. I can say I have never seen a side plate wear out from use like you are describing. It could be that bearing was a replacement at some point and just fit loose because they used the wrong one. It happens.

If the side plate is aluminum you can smack the inside bearing surface with a center punch and raise the surface a little bit to make the bearing fit tighter. It doesn't take much. A drop of super glue can work as well. Easily knock out the bearing later if you need to with just a drop of glue. The glue will keep it from moving under normal use.

[HellaBread]

You would be surprised. I can grab a different bearing from our drawer and have it fit tight in a side plate like that. It happens as it doesn't take much difference in dimension to have a bearing fit loose. I can say I have never seen a side plate wear out from use like you are describing. It could be that bearing was a replacement at some point and just fit loose because they used the wrong one. It happens.

If the side plate is aluminum you can smack the inside bearing surface with a center punch and raise the surface a little bit to make the bearing fit tighter. It doesn't take much. A drop of super glue can work as well. Easily knock out the bearing later if you need to with just a drop of glue. The glue will keep it from moving under normal use.

makes sense, it’s just the first time i’ve seen a shimano with a clutch fitting like this. In general i’ve found all the shimano’s I own have borderline obscenely tight arb to side plate fitment to where usually i gotta take a mallet to it and tap it to install or remove. New clutch is coming today anyway so i’ll be fiddling with the reel later today. Just wish you guys would do parts pickup for locals . Seems a little wasteful to ship stuff 15 mins from the irvine office.

[Bantam1]

I agree but it's been that way for the 21 years I have been here. We have never sold parts over the counter and we have never offered will call.

If the new bearing is still loose bring it by with your side plate and I can find one that fits tighter for you. The counter for repair is open 8-4:30. I am here until 2pm each day.

[HellaBread]

I agree but it's been that way for the 21 years I have been here. We have never sold parts over the counter and we have never offered will call.

If the new bearing is still loose bring it by with your side plate and I can find one that fits tighter for you. The counter for repair is open 8-4:30. I am here until 2pm each day.

Sure thing.

Also as a little side note not sure how much say you have over parts/repair department operations but since the parts order site is now running Shopify as its back end setting up local pickup is a built in feature and really easy to use as it doesn’t require a separate system outside of the store site that would mess with inventory tracking or any additional overhead to process. It’s treated the same as a regular order placed on the site. I’d imagine getting approval for this in a company as large as shimano still wouldn’t be easy but if shimano is interested I’d be happy to help in a pm. I’ve been running my own shopify store for about 3 years and am very familiar with the system.

[Bantam1]

It's nothing on the backend or Shopify. It's just how operations run here in our DC. Maybe in the future it can change, but for now it's shipping only. We simply do not have the room to hold a bunch of will call items in the DC or our repair department. As it is our repair department only receives parts once per day. I handle those orders and restocking our department.

[HellaBread]

As it is our repair department only receives parts once per day. I handle those orders and restocking our department.

I did not know that, neat. I noticed the store site inventory going wonky whenever I would check during crackhead hours of the night and Im assuming this is the explanation for that. I initially thought that was because of the parts number system switch.

[Bantam1]

I am not sure what time the system updates for inventory. I'm sure it happens late at night or early AM. The inventory isn't live on the website. It updates overnight to show the "accurate" inventory. If you call in to order parts the CS guys can see live inventory. There are some kinks they are trying to get worked out with the site. Slowly but surely it should all be worked out.