First Swimbait Combo

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First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:52 am

So I plan on buying a cheaper HD/Swimbait setup before next Summer/Spring. I don't swimbait fish much, I will throw a few glide baits on it, bigger 6.8 and 7.8 Keitechs, A-rigs, and eventually other swimbaits as I buy them. For now I am planning on one of the following rods (unless anyone else has better suggestions):

Daiwa DX Swimbait Rod:
8'Heavy fast, 2-8oz, 12-40lb $100
8'XHeavy fast, 3-10oz, 20-50lb $100

Shimano SLX A Swimbait Rod:
7'8"Heavy fast, 2-8oz, 15-25lb $110

Dobyns Fury:
8'Heavy fast, 2-8oz, 20-40lb $140

Lew's Super Duty Split Grip:
7'11"XHeavy moderate fast, 4-10oz, 30-80lb, $200

Okuma Guide Select "A" Swimbait Rod:
7'11"XHeavy fast, 2-10oz, 15-40lb, $140

IROD Swimbait Rods???
Not sure on model here, they have a ton and I have no experience.

Concerning reels, just a good old reliable 300 size reel with decent casting should be fine. Either a Tatula 300 or Curado 300 are most likely, in the slowest gear ratio. I think the Tatula has a 5.3 and the Curado offers a 4.7. I would also consider a Lexa TW in either size, and other compatible reels too, just the Curado and Tatula seem to make more sense price wise.

Back to rods, I know most of you fish higher end ones, but for me this is about the best I can do for a combo I will rarely use. I would like to get a ton of use out of it, but realistically I enjoy tackle and just want to have this tool ready for when I need it. I mentioned the Lew's rod because I trust their warranty and they have always done me right (even though I have never heard a thing about that rod or its series. Just any input or suggestions would be nice.




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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Cal » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:09 am

You need to decide what you want to throw more - hardbaits (treble hooked baits) or softbaits (single, jig style hook).

Just like conventional tackle, you want match the tapers of the rod with the intended application. So once you decide if you need/want something with a fast or moderate taper, it will be easier to narrow down from the choices you listed above. Additionally, you need to decide on the intended lure weight range, but that's not as critical as taper.
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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:42 am

Cal wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:09 am
You need to decide what you want to throw more - hardbaits (treble hooked baits) or softbaits (single, jig style hook).

Just like conventional tackle, you want match the tapers of the rod with the intended application. So once you decide if you need/want something with a fast or moderate taper, it will be easier to narrow down from the choices you listed above. Additionally, you need to decide on the intended lure weight range, but that's not as critical as taper.
Thanks for the input. My issue is that I don't know for sure. I would assume 80% of what I will throw will be big single hook baits like Keitechs or A-rigs. That being said I'd rather have a rod too stout than too soft. My current 7'6"H jig rod stands no chance. I just more or less was naming things I might also use the rod for. I really don't want to specialize too much. Planned on initially using 25lb fluorocarbon, maybe 65lb braid.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Cal » Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:48 am

still need to know a weight range, but for people starting out with big baits, Okuma has always made solid SB sticks that are priced right.
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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:22 pm

Cal wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:48 am
still need to know a weight range, but for people starting out with big baits, Okuma has always made solid SB sticks that are priced right.
Again, I feel bad, but I don't know. I don't own any big expensive swimbaits, but planned on throwing the 6.8" and 7.8" Keitechs for a bit and slowing collecting some nicer big lures. Looking at cheaper glide baits and hardbody lures, around 2.5oz is the max. I just don't have the coin for anything over about $30 a lure and our fish here in Arkansas tend to hit smaller stuff already. I might would max out higher weights with an A-rig or big paddle tail. Might try some Huddlestons. So I would say 2oz would be the lighter/more common lure weights thrown (again no idea how much a rigged BIG Keitech weighs). I just don't want to buy a soft rod or an extra stout jigging rod, have had a few and sold them.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:47 pm

I’ll try to offer some assistance. I do not know those rods, but from what you provide I can offer opinion on what might best serve you. Look, I’m sure we all agree tackle is subjective, but for whatever general purpose might be a mod/fast taper is a good place to start. In my experience, a true fast action build is rather limited. I get the single point consideration, which makes sense, but not for moving baits. Bottom contact, yes, but moving is moving no matter what. As such, I suggest forgetting anything listed ‘fast’. Second, if you’re serious about that general 2oz range stated, I can’t figure purpose for anything listed to throw 8. Much less 10. And if said stick is capable, rather than simply listed capable, you’ll be giving up considerable use ability with such a stout assembly. Again, just my opinion, but perhaps something more around the 6 range might serve better. That’s what I suggest, dig around for an acceptable mod/fast rated no more than about 6oz. Unless you’re actually seriously going to do it. Lots of talk of throwing super mag baits nowadays but a 10oz bait requires serious commitment. More than I am willing to put forth I can tell you that. If size of bait is the issue, take note size and weight do not correlate. Two baits of near identical looking size can vary in weight by considerable margin and there are thousands of baits to choose from. Be patient, dig around, you’ll find the right stick. Good luck.
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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Cristo » Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:38 am

=D> well stated Goodyear

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:32 am

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:47 pm
I’ll try to offer some assistance. I do not know those rods, but from what you provide I can offer opinion on what might best serve you. Look, I’m sure we all agree tackle is subjective, but for whatever general purpose might be a mod/fast taper is a good place to start. In my experience, a true fast action build is rather limited. I get the single point consideration, which makes sense, but not for moving baits. Bottom contact, yes, but moving is moving no matter what. As such, I suggest forgetting anything listed ‘fast’. Second, if you’re serious about that general 2oz range stated, I can’t figure purpose for anything listed to throw 8. Much less 10. And if said stick is capable, rather than simply listed capable, you’ll be giving up considerable use ability with such a stout assembly. Again, just my opinion, but perhaps something more around the 6 range might serve better. That’s what I suggest, dig around for an acceptable mod/fast rated no more than about 6oz. Unless you’re actually seriously going to do it. Lots of talk of throwing super mag baits nowadays but a 10oz bait requires serious commitment. More than I am willing to put forth I can tell you that. If size of bait is the issue, take note size and weight do not correlate. Two baits of near identical looking size can vary in weight by considerable margin and there are thousands of baits to choose from. Be patient, dig around, you’ll find the right stick. Good luck.
Thanks for the info, see in my head I was viewing it like a M or MH rod. Rated for up to 3/4oz or higher and I am using only about 1/4 or 3/8 max. I figured on most of those rods that the higher rating was a bit ambitious. I have just read a few reviews where people bought the Daiwa DX for example, and got the Heavy but wished they had gone ahead and grabbed the Extra Heavy.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:41 am

Another question, I am sure I will take a hit one way or another on the rod (not matching perfect to what I want), but how about the Curado 300 vs Tatula 300? I am impressed that the Tatula 300 actually does have dual pinion support. I like the Curado's lower 4.7 ratio though and cheaper price. Just no info on either on of these, have not seen a lot of long term use tests. I really don't want to spend a ton on this setup, that is another reason I was eyeing the Curado.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Vooden » Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:23 pm

Back in the day, the Curado 300 was an early option away from more expensive conventional baitcasters. I always liked its drag. Not sure the Tatula is worth the extra $'s.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:07 am

The more I have researched this, and after thinking on all Cal said, I would like this first rod to be geared toward jig hook models, paddletails, etc. I don't have any big hardbaits and for now (next year or so) will only stock big soft lures. That being said, any more rod advice or suggestions? I would order a Tatula 300 right now from Japan but they don't have the 5.3 ratio...

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Drakestar » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:26 pm

I started fishing swimbaits on one of those Daiwa rods you mention. Capable rods in the $100 range, will get the job done. I paired it with a Shimano Cardiff A and that worked well, too - both rod and reel are in the same price range, it's kind of weird to put a $250+ reel on a $100 rod.

The thing even with "big plastic baits" is that you can (and will!) fish them differently: you might chuck and wind using a Magdraft 8" or a 7.8" Keitech and the cheap rods will be perfectly fine, or you might start creeping bottom with an 8" Huddleston or Savage Gear 4D Trout and you might quickly want a more sensitive rod than what $100 gives you (especially if you're spoiled in the bottom contact department from other techniques).

If you're not planning on creeping baits on the bottom, and if you're looking to throw soft baits only, you're kind of done. Get any of the rods you mention, keeping in mind that there are treble hook big plastic swimbaits like the pre-rigged Magdraft as well as jig hook ones (Magdraft Freestyle, Keitechs etc. Pick a taper that works best for you. I'd go with the Daiwa or Dobyns because of familiarity, but Cal's Okuma recommendation holds a lot of water, of course. I use a Tatula 300 on my 806, it's the right size reel for that rod.

I feel like you're a bit overpowered with rods that are rated 2-8oz because the baits you're throwing are all on the lower end of that spectrum (an 8" Magdraft is 3oz, a 7.8" Keitech is 1.9oz unrigged), but the rods will definitely work.

Even if you're going to try creeping Huds this winter I'd just get the combos described and see if you like it. Just be prepared to want a rod upgrade IF you do find that you enjoy that kind of bottom contact swimbait fishing.

FWIW, the rod I'd REALLY want for 2-3oz swimbaits (both soft and hard) is the USDM Destroyer Mark 48. (n fact, that's what I use in that range. The Mark 48 has the perfect weight range (1-5oz) to throw big soft plastic swimbaits, it throws 168 and 200 glidebaits just as well (many are around 2-3oz), and the taper is fast enough to drive jig hooks, but moderate enough to keep trebles pinned. You can creep 6" soft swimbaits on it, as well, but it feels underpowered for 8" Huds. The follow-up to that rod will be the P5 Mark 56, we'll see if it continues the tradition.

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:50 pm

Drakestar wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:26 pm
I started fishing swimbaits on one of those Daiwa rods you mention. Capable rods in the $100 range, will get the job done. I paired it with a Shimano Cardiff A and that worked well, too - both rod and reel are in the same price range, it's kind of weird to put a $250+ reel on a $100 rod.

The thing even with "big plastic baits" is that you can (and will!) fish them differently: you might chuck and wind using a Magdraft 8" or a 7.8" Keitech and the cheap rods will be perfectly fine, or you might start creeping bottom with an 8" Huddleston or Savage Gear 4D Trout and you might quickly want a more sensitive rod than what $100 gives you (especially if you're spoiled in the bottom contact department from other techniques).

If you're not planning on creeping baits on the bottom, and if you're looking to throw soft baits only, you're kind of done. Get any of the rods you mention, keeping in mind that there are treble hook big plastic swimbaits like the pre-rigged Magdraft as well as jig hook ones (Magdraft Freestyle, Keitechs etc. Pick a taper that works best for you. I'd go with the Daiwa or Dobyns because of familiarity, but Cal's Okuma recommendation holds a lot of water, of course. I use a Tatula 300 on my 806, it's the right size reel for that rod.

I feel like you're a bit overpowered with rods that are rated 2-8oz because the baits you're throwing are all on the lower end of that spectrum (an 8" Magdraft is 3oz, a 7.8" Keitech is 1.9oz unrigged), but the rods will definitely work.

Even if you're going to try creeping Huds this winter I'd just get the combos described and see if you like it. Just be prepared to want a rod upgrade IF you do find that you enjoy that kind of bottom contact swimbait fishing.

FWIW, the rod I'd REALLY want for 2-3oz swimbaits (both soft and hard) is the USDM Destroyer Mark 48. (n fact, that's what I use in that range. The Mark 48 has the perfect weight range (1-5oz) to throw big soft plastic swimbaits, it throws 168 and 200 glidebaits just as well (many are around 2-3oz), and the taper is fast enough to drive jig hooks, but moderate enough to keep trebles pinned. You can creep 6" soft swimbaits on it, as well, but it feels underpowered for 8" Huds. The follow-up to that rod will be the P5 Mark 56, we'll see if it continues the tradition.
Thanks for the info, and yes, I agree that the Tatula 300 will be a nice reel for a $100 rod, but a $100 rod offers a decent amount now. Also I could keep the reel for years and shift it around, rods don't feel so permanent. I am still trying to decide whether I should go all the way up to 25lb line or 20lb would be fine for what I am doing. 20lb fluorocarbon can be way stronger than people realize, I just wonder if I should max out the size for setting those 10/0 or even 12/0 Beast hooks on big Keitech's (like I will actually catch any).

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by Drakestar » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:40 pm

DirtyD64 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:50 pm
Thanks for the info, and yes, I agree that the Tatula 300 will be a nice reel for a $100 rod, but a $100 rod offers a decent amount now. Also I could keep the reel for years and shift it around, rods don't feel so permanent. I am still trying to decide whether I should go all the way up to 25lb line or 20lb would be fine for what I am doing. 20lb fluorocarbon can be way stronger than people realize, I just wonder if I should max out the size for setting those 10/0 or even 12/0 Beast hooks on big Keitech's (like I will actually catch any).
This Butch Brown video might offer some pointers, he uses 20lbs AbrazX. He talks about big glides with treble hooks in the video, not soft plastic SBs with jig hooks, but it's still good reference.

https://youtu.be/pV5Qqx1YQok?t=1503

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Re: First Swimbait Combo

Post by DirtyD64 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:34 pm

Well as of now I am planning for the Daiwa DX Swimbait rod in Heavy (fast action) rated for 2-8oz. Pairing it up with a Tatula 300 (in either 5.3 or 6.3), the lower ratio should be fine because even the 5 gear has around 28 IPT. Then to top it off I will hunt a deal on some 20 or above fluorocarbon. I am sick because Midway had Daiwa Samurai fluorocarbon for like $17 for a 25lb 220 yard spool and I missed it. 90% or more of the lures I throw will be big paddle tails with single hooks, but I still would prefer the 5.3 because I feel 28 IPT is plenty. Am I wrong and should consider a faster version? One of the reasons the Curado 300 was so appealing was the 4.7 ratio offered.

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