Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
Have you ever successfully tied a double turle knot in 8x tippet? I tried it and gave up trying.
Re: Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
I never use that knot nor anything less than 6x, can you give a reason why you think either of those are needed? I have never understood why people think that you need super light tippet like that, I occasionally had customers coming in and asking for it and always told them that presentation is the key to wary fish, and if you want something less visible go with 6x fluoro. Why do you use a turle knot at all with modern tippet? just curious, i have fished for some heavily pressured fish in super clear water on tiny streams and never wish I had 8x let alone 7x.
Düzbomb's Custom Jigs www.facebook.com/DUZBOMBS
Re: Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
Good question. My reason is size 24 dry flies. During winter hatches of snow flies on my available trout streams, the size 20 flies fished on 6x are too big. I get a lot more strikes on a size 24 Griffiths gnat than on a size 20 Griffiths or on another midge imitation.
The double turle is really a good knot for tiny flies because it tends to help lay the fly down the right way, instead of on it's end. I think because of this tendency to lay nicely, I also get more hookups that with, say, an improved clinch.
I can tie it on 6x, but not on 8x.
Second best knot on tiny flies and 7x or 8x is the clinch knot. Not the improved clinch knot, though. Reasons are the same as for the turle knot. Generally the fly lands better on the water.
It's not a visibility issue, it's a drag and fly position issue. 6x is just too big on a #24. 7x would work fine, but I like 8x better because the fly floats with less drag and I get better (i.e., smaller) knots with it.
I'm generally not fussy about tippet size. For trout fishing, I use a 6x for everything from size 8 streamers to size 20 midges. I just adjust the timing of my casts for the different sizes. For freshwater lake panfish, I use a 3x. For anything bigger I use a 12 pound tippet (with a wire leader if there are Northern pike or other toothy critters about.) The only exception is 10 pound tippet on a long leader for bonefish.
By the way, I dug up and re-read my copy of George von Schrader's Carp Are Gamefish. I'll be heading over to Lake Michigan this summer to try out those golden bones you brought to my attention a week or two ago. (Yep. 10# tippets on a long leader for them too.)
The double turle is really a good knot for tiny flies because it tends to help lay the fly down the right way, instead of on it's end. I think because of this tendency to lay nicely, I also get more hookups that with, say, an improved clinch.
I can tie it on 6x, but not on 8x.
Second best knot on tiny flies and 7x or 8x is the clinch knot. Not the improved clinch knot, though. Reasons are the same as for the turle knot. Generally the fly lands better on the water.
It's not a visibility issue, it's a drag and fly position issue. 6x is just too big on a #24. 7x would work fine, but I like 8x better because the fly floats with less drag and I get better (i.e., smaller) knots with it.
I'm generally not fussy about tippet size. For trout fishing, I use a 6x for everything from size 8 streamers to size 20 midges. I just adjust the timing of my casts for the different sizes. For freshwater lake panfish, I use a 3x. For anything bigger I use a 12 pound tippet (with a wire leader if there are Northern pike or other toothy critters about.) The only exception is 10 pound tippet on a long leader for bonefish.
By the way, I dug up and re-read my copy of George von Schrader's Carp Are Gamefish. I'll be heading over to Lake Michigan this summer to try out those golden bones you brought to my attention a week or two ago. (Yep. 10# tippets on a long leader for them too.)
Re: Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
ok, to each their own i guess, i still fish 6x on #24 midges, dry and nymph, i actually prefer the stiffness for casting those flies I think they lay out better and I don't have to overplay a fish in order to protect the tippet. Also, considering your requirements for tiny flies, I would think that you would and should use heavier tippet for nymphing and particularly streamers, otherwise you are leaving yourself at a disadvantage for no reason, both casting and fighting fish. I never fish anything lighter than 4x for streamers and thats only for size 10s and 12s, and 3x is my go to. For nymphing I use the heaviest that I can, mainly because my experience has shown that a good drift will fool just about any trout no matter the size of the tippet.
I also think that it is an anglers responsibility to use stronger line if it doesn't affect the fishing. Overplaying fish to protect unnecessarily light tippet is wrong, and many aquatic ecologists will tell you that a trout played twice as long will have a much higher mortality rate than and fished played quickly on adequate leader strength. I bet they would also say that a trout with a fly and piece of leader hanging from its jaw has a harder time surviving. I for one would rather not fish with 7 or 8x or 6x with streamers and not catch fish than to risk killing more caught and released fish or broken off fish just for my own amusement. I am not trying to be hostile, just sharing my thoughts. I would like to hear yours.
I also think that it is an anglers responsibility to use stronger line if it doesn't affect the fishing. Overplaying fish to protect unnecessarily light tippet is wrong, and many aquatic ecologists will tell you that a trout played twice as long will have a much higher mortality rate than and fished played quickly on adequate leader strength. I bet they would also say that a trout with a fly and piece of leader hanging from its jaw has a harder time surviving. I for one would rather not fish with 7 or 8x or 6x with streamers and not catch fish than to risk killing more caught and released fish or broken off fish just for my own amusement. I am not trying to be hostile, just sharing my thoughts. I would like to hear yours.
Düzbomb's Custom Jigs www.facebook.com/DUZBOMBS
Re: Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
It definitely is the territory where "to each his own" applies. I don't perceive a disadvantage to the 6x, even for size 6 muddlers, and I don't overplay the fish. 6x (and 8x too) is so strong now that breaking a knot or a tippet is the least of my worries, at least with the size trout I have to deal with -- 10-14" is typical, 18" is really big. It's really unusual to for me to take more than a minute to bring in even the biggest of the trout I catch, and I can't recall it ever taking more than a minute and a half.
One of my favorite authors on trout fishing is the late Arnold Gingrich, who was the father-- or at least uncle-- of American midge fishing. He really played the poor things to death and had a ritual of spending in excess of 1/2 hour rescusitating a fish before it could swim away. Maybe it was just the super frail early monofilaments he had. Tippets are better now. Even the 8x seems pretty strong to me.
I think the casting thing is a learned response because I fish in waters where things change rapidly and a big wooly bugger might be called for in one place and a small nymph may be called for 50 yards away. Changing tippets and leaders drove me nuts, so I just learned to cast everything with a 6x. Works for me.
One of my favorite authors on trout fishing is the late Arnold Gingrich, who was the father-- or at least uncle-- of American midge fishing. He really played the poor things to death and had a ritual of spending in excess of 1/2 hour rescusitating a fish before it could swim away. Maybe it was just the super frail early monofilaments he had. Tippets are better now. Even the 8x seems pretty strong to me.
I think the casting thing is a learned response because I fish in waters where things change rapidly and a big wooly bugger might be called for in one place and a small nymph may be called for 50 yards away. Changing tippets and leaders drove me nuts, so I just learned to cast everything with a 6x. Works for me.
Re: Double turle knot in 8x tippet?
One other thought: I used to believe that the rod had a lot to do with the ability to land fish on light tippets until I was stuck out West with a relatively stiff 7wt using light tippets with small flies in a place I expected to need big flies and heavier tippets. I had to fight them differently, and I couldn't rely on the deep bend in my usual rod. I had to lower the tip and give line more when the fish applied pressure. Eventually I learned to use a 6' bamboo midge rod the same way. Having the 9' Sage Light Line was like having automatic transmission in a car, the shorter midge rod and the stiffer 7wt is more like having manual transmission. One isn't better than the other, but they sure are different.