I think price should be left out of TT review score
I think price should be left out of TT review score
You can have yearly 'best value' awards for products that perform well at a resonable price (like 'car & driver' or 'consumer reports' does), but I feel reviews should only factor in build quality and performance. I'm sure some people don't even read the full review (like my bro) and would say 'they gave my steez a 7/10, a lower rating than the Tatula'...what a crock! JMO of course....
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I think price to performance thoughts fine myself. We all know about diminishing returns. Then again, a portion of all reviews are subjective. We all have our preferences and like what we like.
- Hobie-Wan Kenobi
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I see where you are coming from, as sometimes MSRP is a decent margin higher than street price. I do like to look at "cost to performance" as a factor for tackle. It was mentioned about diminishing returns, which we can see through a little easier than the typical angler.
You will see in an upcoming reel review how cost definitely is a factor. I went though a few different thoughts on how to factor price into the review. The release of a similar reel really changed my perception regarding price score.
You will see in an upcoming reel review how cost definitely is a factor. I went though a few different thoughts on how to factor price into the review. The release of a similar reel really changed my perception regarding price score.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I think you need the price listed in the review. As an example, I expect more out of an Exist than I do a Certate. If you compare the two head to head without considering the price, the Exist wins without question. Put price into the equation and it changes. Could you compare a $500 plus rod to a $200 rod without knowing the prices? The components alone make the higher-dollar rod better quality. I like to know what I'm getting for the price I'm paying.
Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
Cal does a pretty good job of referencing price when rating a reel without digging into the "best reel for $X" firestorm.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
One has to realize that giving a Tatula a 9/10 and a Steez an 8/10 doesn't mean the Tatula is a better reel. The ratings need to be observed within the range of product offering ie. comparing Acura to Honda or Volkswagen to Audi is not fair. If you compare a certain Steez model to another Steez model the rating becomes relevant. In other words products need to be compared to competitive products in the same Tier . . . just my 2cents worth!
Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I get that. However, the '23 Corvette Z06 @ $130k got a 10/10 from Car and Driver....what you'd expect. Camaro ZL1@70k received a 9/10...also about what you'd expect. Maybe TT just deducts too many points for price. If Tackle Tour reviewed cars, there is no way they would give a Ferrari 296gtb a 9.6/10, because it's $370k. It would probably get a 7/10 like an Evergreen RS.gambler2100 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:11 amOne has to realize that giving a Tatula a 9/10 and a Steez an 8/10 doesn't mean the Tatula is a better reel. The ratings need to be observed within the range of product offering ie. comparing Acura to Honda or Volkswagen to Audi is not fair. If you compare a certain Steez model to another Steez model the rating becomes relevant. In other words products need to be compared to competitive products in the same Tier . . . just my 2cents worth!
Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I get that. Maybe TT just deducts too many points for price. If Tackle Tour reviewed cars, there is no way they would give a Ferrari 296gtb a 9.6/10 like C&D did, because it's $370k. It would probably get a 7/10 like an Evergreen RS.gambler2100 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:11 amOne has to realize that giving a Tatula a 9/10 and a Steez an 8/10 doesn't mean the Tatula is a better reel. The ratings need to be observed within the range of product offering ie. comparing Acura to Honda or Volkswagen to Audi is not fair. If you compare a certain Steez model to another Steez model the rating becomes relevant. In other words products need to be compared to competitive products in the same Tier . . . just my 2cents worth!
Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I'd like to see price ranges/what's offered taken into consideration versus just price.
For example a Steez SVTW would be in the higher priced class, would directly compete with the $500 range Shimano or Abu reels, and then tell which one offers most at that point.
I just remember the Alphas SVTW scoring low on price cause it was like $300 range. I got mine for almost half that and feel it is one of the best deals I've ever had on a reel, especially how high things are now. I know my story takes JDM price into consideration, but so do a lot of enthusiast anglers.
For example a Steez SVTW would be in the higher priced class, would directly compete with the $500 range Shimano or Abu reels, and then tell which one offers most at that point.
I just remember the Alphas SVTW scoring low on price cause it was like $300 range. I got mine for almost half that and feel it is one of the best deals I've ever had on a reel, especially how high things are now. I know my story takes JDM price into consideration, but so do a lot of enthusiast anglers.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
Should price score be comparative to other reels in the price point? An issue would be that the first reel in a generation (say Daiwa pumps out a new Steez before Shimano does an Antares and such). Would it be fair for that new Steez to get a better price score because it is better than the competition?
At the end of the day, we all think "Is this reel worth the money?". That is hard to define to the individual because someone may think the laws of diminishing returns start at say the Tatula range of reels. The next angler may value flat out performance more than cost-to-performace.
Also, TT reviews are not a collective project. One person does the review. Although is a structure of sorts with sections, grading criteria and such, there is still a subjective nature to it...I think that makes the review a little more useful for people overall. Without it, any review would just be a regurgitation of specs with a side of measuring performance data in an overly controlled environment that would be a misrepresentation of the highly variable conditions that is as anglers face.
The KastKing Kestrel Elite is a great example of pricing affecting overall score quite a bit due to a subjective thought. I think the Kestrel Elite in a vacuum is a great value for the money. For about $30-$40 more than the Curado BFS, the Kestrel Elite is better in almost every way by a long shot. I looked at the Kestrel Elite as quite high for a price score...at first anyway. KastKing released a reel called the Valiant Eagle II in their overseas market. For about 1/3 of the price, you get the same frame, spool, brakes...basically performance of the Kestrel Elite. Biggest difference is frame material and bearing count. Hell, both reels even came with the same big grease blob on the spool shaft bearing . That reduced my score for price because anglers can get VERY similar performance at way less price. If the angler values smaller reel weight, could be worth the increase in price.
The best way to see if a product is for you is to get it yourself and use it. Could be a reel, waders or even a lawnmower. That is foolish and unrealistic strategy to do for every product We look to buy in life. We look up rating and reviews, watch videos and search the web for information about a product to decide to buy or not. We have to take the many opinions of people we come across, evaluate that info and make a determination to buy/pass.
At the end of the day, we all think "Is this reel worth the money?". That is hard to define to the individual because someone may think the laws of diminishing returns start at say the Tatula range of reels. The next angler may value flat out performance more than cost-to-performace.
Also, TT reviews are not a collective project. One person does the review. Although is a structure of sorts with sections, grading criteria and such, there is still a subjective nature to it...I think that makes the review a little more useful for people overall. Without it, any review would just be a regurgitation of specs with a side of measuring performance data in an overly controlled environment that would be a misrepresentation of the highly variable conditions that is as anglers face.
The KastKing Kestrel Elite is a great example of pricing affecting overall score quite a bit due to a subjective thought. I think the Kestrel Elite in a vacuum is a great value for the money. For about $30-$40 more than the Curado BFS, the Kestrel Elite is better in almost every way by a long shot. I looked at the Kestrel Elite as quite high for a price score...at first anyway. KastKing released a reel called the Valiant Eagle II in their overseas market. For about 1/3 of the price, you get the same frame, spool, brakes...basically performance of the Kestrel Elite. Biggest difference is frame material and bearing count. Hell, both reels even came with the same big grease blob on the spool shaft bearing . That reduced my score for price because anglers can get VERY similar performance at way less price. If the angler values smaller reel weight, could be worth the increase in price.
The best way to see if a product is for you is to get it yourself and use it. Could be a reel, waders or even a lawnmower. That is foolish and unrealistic strategy to do for every product We look to buy in life. We look up rating and reviews, watch videos and search the web for information about a product to decide to buy or not. We have to take the many opinions of people we come across, evaluate that info and make a determination to buy/pass.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
Other than a few rare comparisons TT does not get into the reel comparison crap storm. I don't take and number from a point system to mean that any reel is better than another. You're bench racing reels at that point. The review is there to get you a look at the insides, some spool weights and idea of smoothness and some idea of casting.
I wish skipping and braking profile was discussed in each review. I have to decipher the braking profile based on the impressions of the reviewer. Cal seems to like freer casting profiles having repeatedly spoken highly of MGL and older Pixy/Alphas Magforce V/Z and has not exactly been warm to SV spooled reels. Zander seems to be the opposite and will often speak highly about how a reel can cast well even with a strong backlash resistance profile brake setting. See his remarks about how well the Curado DC would cast even when set thumb free or his 17 Tatula SV reviews.
I wish skipping and braking profile was discussed in each review. I have to decipher the braking profile based on the impressions of the reviewer. Cal seems to like freer casting profiles having repeatedly spoken highly of MGL and older Pixy/Alphas Magforce V/Z and has not exactly been warm to SV spooled reels. Zander seems to be the opposite and will often speak highly about how a reel can cast well even with a strong backlash resistance profile brake setting. See his remarks about how well the Curado DC would cast even when set thumb free or his 17 Tatula SV reviews.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
You make some interesting points. Although there isn't a completely objective way to do reviews, it's a good thing the subjectivity on the TackleTour reviews are limited to the user's preference/experience versus factors like money, sponsors and such.LowRange wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:22 amOther than a few rare comparisons TT does not get into the reel comparison crap storm. I don't take and number from a point system to mean that any reel is better than another. You're bench racing reels at that point. The review is there to get you a look at the insides, some spool weights and idea of smoothness and some idea of casting.
I wish skipping and braking profile was discussed in each review. I have to decipher the braking profile based on the impressions of the reviewer. Cal seems to like freer casting profiles having repeatedly spoken highly of MGL and older Pixy/Alphas Magforce V/Z and has not exactly been warm to SV spooled reels. Zander seems to be the opposite and will often speak highly about how a reel can cast well even with a strong backlash resistance profile brake setting. See his remarks about how well the Curado DC would cast even when set thumb free or his 17 Tatula SV reviews.
I agree with the subject nature of user preference. After fishing with Zander's gear, I know what you say is true in a sense. Most reels I found myself loosening up the brakes a little. That doesn't mean I cast better or further, just a different casting stroke. Same goes with rods. Some people like casting fast action rods vs moderate. If they have a naturally snappy casting motion, the faster action will react better. If it's a slower casting motion, the moderate rod will feel better.
I can say I didn't have the same experience with the Gekkabijin AIR TW as Cal did. Reading his review, I wouldn't say what he is saying is wrong by any means, it is just different experience and uses. I find getting reviews and experience from multiple sources often paints the best picture for me to purchase.
Skipping and braking profile I think makes it's way into reviews when they naturally do. I included it in my Kestrel Elite review because it stood out to me and was worth mentioning. My Silver Creek AIR TW review, it's does ok but, the majority of users are not getting that reel to skip so, I decided to have open water and stream sections of the review.
I try to incorporate longer term thoughts in my written reviews. I generally do my videos as initial impression type information and put my longer term thoughts into a written review. That makes each source of information true in the moment and, distinguishable enough from each other that they aren't just a regurgitation of each other.
Price score is mostly regarding just that reviewed piece of tackle being worth the money for what you get. There may be a mental comparison to other like priced reels to help determine the price score but, nothing like "Tatula vs Curado " type hype. I guess in an odd way of saying, you wouldn't openly compare your wife to your ex girlfriends .
With many outlets people share their experiences nowadays, the info is there. There are just some people's opinions I place more weight on than others.
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
If you enjoy wine, you may be familiar with QPR or “quality price ratio.” A $10 bottle or $100+ bottle could score well in this category, just depends on how it performs. I definitely think this is something to consider in TT reviews, though perhaps it should have a little less influence than other categories? I dunno
Now if only there were a way to do “blind testing” like you can have a blind beverage tasting, then we’d get some interesting info. I’ve seen enthusiasts become upset when they score a “lesser” wine/bourbon/etc better than more hyped offerings. I myself wonder, would I think more highly of a bps rod if it said evergreen on it? Or think less of an evergreen if it was bps branded?
Now if only there were a way to do “blind testing” like you can have a blind beverage tasting, then we’d get some interesting info. I’ve seen enthusiasts become upset when they score a “lesser” wine/bourbon/etc better than more hyped offerings. I myself wonder, would I think more highly of a bps rod if it said evergreen on it? Or think less of an evergreen if it was bps branded?
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
Store brand rods aren't half bad. Most times, they are made by a reputable rod company. You can see the influence from a company by looking closely at the store brand.evilcatfish wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:06 pmIf you enjoy wine, you may be familiar with QPR or “quality price ratio.” A $10 bottle or $100+ bottle could score well in this category, just depends on how it performs. I definitely think this is something to consider in TT reviews, though perhaps it should have a little less influence than other categories? I dunno
Now if only there were a way to do “blind testing” like you can have a blind beverage tasting, then we’d get some interesting info. I’ve seen enthusiasts become upset when they score a “lesser” wine/bourbon/etc better than more hyped offerings. I myself wonder, would I think more highly of a bps rod if it said evergreen on it? Or think less of an evergreen if it was bps branded?
QPR is something I like to look at. The Tatula series is about the best there is for me. Does about 90% of what higher end reels can do at way less price. Is my whole lineup Tatulas??? Nope...this is TackleTour
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Re: I think price should be left out of TT review score
I agree.KP Duty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:32 pmYou can have yearly 'best value' awards for products that perform well at a resonable price (like 'car & driver' or 'consumer reports' does), but I feel reviews should only factor in build quality and performance. I'm sure some people don't even read the full review (like my bro) and would say 'they gave my steez a 7/10, a lower rating than the Tatula'...what a crock! JMO of course....