Magforce-Z induction activation revolutions?

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mark poulson
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Re: Magforce-Z induction activation revolutions?

Post by mark poulson » Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:05 am

jvelth74 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:40 am
mark poulson wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:07 am
The way it looks to me, the strength of the spring would determine the amount of braking.
Is there any other adjustment of braking strength?
In case of KK Kestrel, manual adjustment of magnetic brake adjusts how deep inside spool magnets are (in axial direction).

Braking torque is magnetic brake setting x revolutions of spool x distance of magnets vs. spool bottom. Naturally same torque tends to brake spool and tends to push magnets against spring, and this makes spring to compress and magnets to move closer to spool bottom.
Thanks. I guess I missed the manual adjustment part on the reel picture.

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Re: Magforce-Z induction activation revolutions?

Post by jvelth74 » Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:47 am

Carlos Carrapiço wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:02 pm

Before I start I'll make this very clear: My comments do not target anyone and have only the objective of bringing true understanding of the mechanism behind the Air braking system.

With that in mind: Daiwa France has no idea how the Air braking system works because there isn't any centrifugal force doing anything. Enough to see that no matter the spool RPM, the spool mass spins always in the same radius. If nothing moves radially, then the centrifugal force has done no work.

Two things make the air inductor move:

1) Once the spool changes its speed significantly (accelerating or stopping), the braking rotor will experience inertia and if the spool acceleration is enough, the inductor will have significant inertia and due to the ramp will move out. I did't manage to create enough acceleration with my Dremel to make it happen but I have notice frequently when having a backlash with braid and hearing the rotor click and get jammed in the out position.

2) This is the intended functioning mode: The spool accelerates in the beginning of the cast and at the very beginning the SV/Air spools work as a fixed inductor spool. Once it reaches a certain speed, enough braking force is generated in the inductor to make it twist and due to the ramp be pushed out and increase even more the braking effect.

To be sure, I have watched the video in the link and right away realised that the inductor cup was coming out due to the vibration. Decided to debunk this, unpacked my Dremel and mounted a SV spool on it. To get a proper grip on the spool axis and avoid concentricity problems, I attached the spool to the Dremel using the shaft end on the inductor cup.
The cup was free to move.
Then, I started the Dremel at 5000 RPM and went all the way to 30000 RPM risking my life in the name of science.
The inductor never moved.
To be even more sure, while spinning the spool, I approached a strong magnet to the inductor and it moved out.

Hope it helped bringing some light to this discussion.
I agree 100%. In lafishblog video was damaged spool shaft and it vibrates. (Shaft can be easily damaged in Dremel experiments, so please don't do it.) But because of damaged shaft and vibration in a experiment, actually they proved a Hula Hoop -effect, nothing more.

https://www.lafishblog.com/daiwas-air-brake-system/

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Re: Magforce-Z induction activation revolutions?

Post by jvelth74 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:41 am

There was discussion about ~3 years ago whether there is attractive dynamic forces between inductor and magnets or not. Currently I'm pretty sure there is not such forces. Only existing force is force against moving direction, which is rotation, and to brake it. Or actually it generates both attractive and repulsive forces, but those are equal, and therefore actual force is 0. In fishing Discoveries video this is described easy to understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh56wxgo-ME&t=105s he also validates his conclusions by testing it.

But please look a minute of this: https://www.h2wtech.com/page/linear-magnetic-brakes
Single Sided

The single sided brake is a lower cost solution but has open exposed permanent magnets. If the conductive plate is backed with a steel plate to increase the magnetic field in the gap (which in turn increases the braking) there will be a large magnetic attractive force between the 2 plates and the magnet assembly.

Image

Double Sided

The double-sided brake allows for a thin conductive plate or fin to pass thru the “U” shaped permanent magnet assembly. In this case, there is no magnetic attractive force between the 2 members. This design offers more flexibility for mounting the brakes and does not have exposed magnets.

Image
It's pretty straightforward that in case of Daiwa's Magforce there couldn't be any atractive forces, because it's double-sided brake. But what do you think of 1-sided brake like Shimano FTB and copies of it? Why Fishing Discoveries didn't find any attractive forces?

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