2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

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dragon1
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2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:14 pm

Hello TT members, I wanted to ask for input on the current Shimano TwinPower FD say the 3000MHG versus my 2013 Gen II Real Four Certate 2510R-PE.

I love that Certate model, but want higher than ~ 28 IPTs. I don't think the Shimano 3000 is a larger diameter spool than the 2500 sizes, but the non-C 3000 has a larger gear box and more line capacity. It's going on my Shimano Hard Rocker 8'3" MH rod rated up to about an ounce.
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:45 pm

I also need help to figure out what Shimano size matches closely to Daiwa's pre-LT 2500 spool diameter. FWIW, the current Daiwa 3000LT is close to the Real Four 2500 spool size.
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by BARRAMANIAC » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:37 pm

dragon1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:45 pm
I also need help to figure out what Shimano size matches closely to Daiwa's pre-LT 2500 spool diameter. FWIW, the current Daiwa 3000LT is close to the Real Four 2500 spool size.
Pre LT Daiwa reels the 3000 size was close to a 4000 size Shimano. A pre LT 2500 the closest Shimano size is the 3000. Then there was the mix and match bodies from Daiwa with 2500 spool and rotor on 3000 bodies etc. a Shimano C3000 is just a 2500 with a deeper spool. Only seems to be the higher end like Twinpower and Stella that have specific 3000 bodies. I would expect the Twinpower line would be due for a makeover soon as it is running the older body style similar to FK Stradics.

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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:24 pm

BARRAMANIAC wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:37 pm
dragon1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:45 pm
I also need help to figure out what Shimano size matches closely to Daiwa's pre-LT 2500 spool diameter. FWIW, the current Daiwa 3000LT is close to the Real Four 2500 spool size.
Pre LT Daiwa reels the 3000 size was close to a 4000 size Shimano. A pre LT 2500 the closest Shimano size is the 3000. Then there was the mix and match bodies from Daiwa with 2500 spool and rotor on 3000 bodies etc. a Shimano C3000 is just a 2500 with a deeper spool. Only seems to be the higher end like Twinpower and Stella that have specific 3000 bodies. I would expect the Twinpower line would be due for a makeover soon as it is running the older body style similar to FK Stradics.
Thanks for chiming in mate! FWIW, the current 2020 TwinPower FD is based upon the current Stradic FL frame/long stroke oscillation, and other design cues/material for the rotor...also the larger TP sizes are factory equipped with a cross-carbon drag washer akin to the Stradic FL lineup.

Also, I was always under the impression that all Shimano 3000 sized spools were the same diameter as the 2500, but deeper with more line capacity? From what you posted, it appears this is the case with the "C" models, which I thought indicates the gearing/engine was one sized down, i.e., 3000C would be a 3000 spool capacity with 2500 series body and gearing.

My 2510R-PE has the 2500 Real Four spool diameter (same diameter as the 3000LT) with the Certate 3000 sized "engine"/main gear in 4.8:1...it's a powerful reel but I want faster than the ~ 28 IPT it generates.

I think this link might still be accurate in so far as the Daiwa LT concept sizing:. https://daiwafishing.com.au/pages/light-tough
Last edited by dragon1 on Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by RustyHook » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:02 pm

dragon1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:24 pm

Also, I was always under the impression that all Shimano 3000 sized spools were the same diameter as the 2500, but deeper with more line capacity? From what you posted, it appears this is the case with the "C" models, which I thought indicates the gearing/engine was one sized down, i.e., 3000C would be a 3000 spool capacity with 2500 series body and gearing.
First offered in the 18 Stella all those long cast spools seem to cross ref/fit each other. 18 Stella FJ, 19 Stradic FL, 19 Vanquish, 20 Vanguard, 21 Sustain FJ, Basically all models that have the long cast spool and the same main shaft length thread diameter/pitch or spools with the same stroke

It's crazy how many different spools you can get for example for the 1000 and 2500 bodies. Plus slightly different top drag setup. Allows you to go with one bushing, 2 bushing, 1 bearing or two bearing support. Felt vs carbon drag.

As an example I looked thru for spools with a 13.5mm stroke and 40-43mm diameters. Yumeya spool S-27 group. For the 1000 body you have in line capacity order:

1000SSS : pe: 0.3-120, 0.4-90 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2000SSS : pe: 0.3-140, 0.4-100 , 0.6-80 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
1000S : pe: 0.6-140, 0.8-100, 1-70 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2000S : pe: 0.6-150, 0.8-110, 1-80 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2500S : pe: 0.6-200, 0.8-150, 1-120 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
1000 : pe: 0.8-240, 1-190 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm

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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:40 am

RustyHook wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:02 pm
dragon1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:24 pm

Also, I was always under the impression that all Shimano 3000 sized spools were the same diameter as the 2500, but deeper with more line capacity? From what you posted, it appears this is the case with the "C" models, which I thought indicates the gearing/engine was one sized down, i.e., 3000C would be a 3000 spool capacity with 2500 series body and gearing.
First offered in the 18 Stella all those long cast spools seem to cross ref/fit each other. 18 Stella FJ, 19 Stradic FL, 19 Vanquish, 20 Vanguard, 21 Sustain FJ, Basically all models that have the long cast spool and the same main shaft length thread diameter/pitch or spools with the same stroke

It's crazy how many different spools you can get for example for the 1000 and 2500 bodies. Plus slightly different top drag setup. Allows you to go with one bushing, 2 bushing, 1 bearing or two bearing support. Felt vs carbon drag.

As an example I looked thru for spools with a 13.5mm stroke and 40-43mm diameters. Yumeya spool S-27 group. For the 1000 body you have in line capacity order:

1000SSS : pe: 0.3-120, 0.4-90 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2000SSS : pe: 0.3-140, 0.4-100 , 0.6-80 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
1000S : pe: 0.6-140, 0.8-100, 1-70 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2000S : pe: 0.6-150, 0.8-110, 1-80 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
C2500S : pe: 0.6-200, 0.8-150, 1-120 Diameter : 43mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
1000 : pe: 0.8-240, 1-190 Diameter : 40mm / Stroke: 13.5mm
Wow, thank you for sharing this in-depth information. Do you have data for the 2500-3000 series?
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by RustyHook » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:27 pm

Shimano long stroke spool 2500 & 3000M body Stella FJ, Stradic FL, Vanford, Vanquish Yumeya

2500S/C3000S PE: 0.6-200, 0.8-150, 1-120 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
2500 PE: 0.8-200,1-160,1.2-130 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
C3000M/3000M PE: 1-190, 1.2-150, 1.5-120 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
C3000 PE: 1-400, 1.5-270, 2-200 Diameter 47 Stroke 17

Shimano Spool Naming Conventions: "S" denotes "Shallow" , "SS" denotes "Super Shallow" , "M" denotes Medium

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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:22 pm

RustyHook wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:27 pm
Shimano long stroke spool 2500 & 3000M body Stella FJ, Stradic FL, Vanford, Vanquish Yumeya

2500S/C3000S PE: 0.6-200, 0.8-150, 1-120 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
2500 PE: 0.8-200,1-160,1.2-130 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
C3000M/3000M PE: 1-190, 1.2-150, 1.5-120 Diameter 47 Stroke 17
C3000 PE: 1-400, 1.5-270, 2-200 Diameter 47 Stroke 17

Shimano Spool Naming Conventions: "S" denotes "Shallow" , "SS" denotes "Super Shallow" , "M" denotes Medium
Thanks for the data, it affirms to me that the TwinPower 3000MHG is the one I would most likely pick up next. The 5.8 gear still pulls about ~ 34 IPTs and the Shimano site indicates it has the 4000 sized gearing and at ~ 8.2 oz, it's slightly lighter than my current Daiwa Certate 2510R-PE.
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by RustyHook » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:59 pm

How does it stack up against the current Certate LT3000-XH 6.2:1 36.8" IPT and 7.9oz pe# 8/220, 10/185 you can also get the C4000 @ pe# 10/220, 15/185.

I absolutely love my Certate LT 5000D and my Certate SW 6000. Plan on getting a Saltiga 14k for my SW in a month or so.

In Shimano I love my Stradics FLs and for SW Saragosa 6k and 10k. So no bias on brand for me. I just find once you get to the $400 level Daiwa shows more innovation, performance, smoothness.

With that said, I actually have little experience with the TwinPower. I ended up jumping to Stella once I got above Stradic. It always seemed like I was not gaining much over the Stradic FL plus $20 in bearings to swap in on the inbetween models. It seems to have all the major features. But now that they defaulted it seems on the platnium service and new premium models are just standard warranty ......yet while they stop the 5 yr warranty and claimed it was Corp wide I see they are now offering 5 yr warranty in UK for their AeronTechnium MGS which is basically a Stella level Surf LR casting spinning reel 14k size.


If you get the TP would love to know what you think of it after some use. It's a nice looking reel.

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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:18 am

RustyHook wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:59 pm
How does it stack up against the current Certate LT3000-XH 6.2:1 36.8" IPT and 7.9oz pe# 8/220, 10/185 you can also get the C4000 @ pe# 10/220, 15/185.

I absolutely love my Certate LT 5000D and my Certate SW 6000. Plan on getting a Saltiga 14k for my SW in a month or so.

In Shimano I love my Stradics FLs and for SW Saragosa 6k and 10k. So no bias on brand for me. I just find once you get to the $400 level Daiwa shows more innovation, performance, smoothness.

With that said, I actually have little experience with the TwinPower. I ended up jumping to Stella once I got above Stradic. It always seemed like I was not gaining much over the Stradic FL plus $20 in bearings to swap in on the inbetween models. It seems to have all the major features. But now that they defaulted it seems on the platnium service and new premium models are just standard warranty ......yet while they stop the 5 yr warranty and claimed it was Corp wide I see they are now offering 5 yr warranty in UK for their AeronTechnium MGS which is basically a Stella level Surf LR casting spinning reel 14k size.


If you get the TP would love to know what you think of it after some use. It's a nice looking reel.
Granted that I have only had this reel for a couple of weeks and a few outings on the water...for me, the TP is everything that TT/Cal wrote up in their review, and I have the same model, the C2000SHG.  The operation is very smooth and tight, line-lay is exceptional and better than Daiwa still, due to the worm gearing design and added long stroke, and it lays line tighter and better than even the OG Daiwa with long cast/reverse taper which was also equipped with worm gearing (ie. Whisker Tournament series).  The drag is incredibly smooth, and although it is felt material, I don't think it will fail as per what this sized reel is designed for, as I am not chasing long and hard running fish with it.  This said the first smallie I hooked into with it on the Stones River ran and fought for almost 2 minutes before it ran me under a boulder and pulled off the small treble on the topwater it hit...and the TP drag had effortless start-up and was consistent and extremely smooth throughout the fight and never showed any signs of binding, however the drag setting was fairly med-light with the 8lb braid/10lb fluoro leader I was employing.

I would say that based upon everything I have read about the current Certate LT, it is likely a superior overall and higher level model than the TP, however the line lay and casting distance per same sized moniker, say 2000 v. 2000 etc., would favor the TP.   Still the Certate is higher end overall level threadline and likely built to as exacting if not higher tolerances, and is likely smoother and as robust if not more so.  However, in the $250 to sub $300 range, I don't think Daiwa's current lineup of spinners compete as well against the TP, aside that they have some lighter weight reels per size moniker.

FWIW, this TP C2000SHG is the first reel to have felt most like my OG Daiwa Tournament ZC 1500 on my custom Lamiglas XMG50 LSJ 781, while providing the same effortless casting/distance and tight line lay on the spool as the 2010 Vanquish C2500SH that I used to own, but with a tighter overall feel and with a more sturdy overall construction.

This European fellow has great vid reviews of threadlines and I really enjoyed his assessment here of the TP XD vs the Certate LT:  https://youtu.be/0eEeNCANGqE
Last edited by dragon1 on Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:24 am

BTW, this video is a great comparison and eye-opener on the aluminum/metal construction of the current TP FD vs the Vanquish...and towards the end of the video, a small tidbit about being able to upgrade to a longer Vanquish handle on the TP FD made the cranking start up inertia and continued cranking feel improve dramatically as well.

https://youtu.be/ZKmpO0LKcGo
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by RustyHook » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:34 am

Thank you for the info!
I agree about the felt drag. Shimanos upper models have great line lay.

Speaking of line lay, I just got to see the line lay of Shimanos premier surf casting spinning reel. The Aero Techinum MGS it has the Long Stroke Spool plus Super Slow Oscillation 10 (had never heard of it). 107 rotor to spool rotations per spool stroke. To me that's insane!?! It's as if the spool is not moving up/down. The line lay is beautiful. The spool itself a marvel. Shimano really has the line lay mastered overall on spinning reel IMO.

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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by dragon1 » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:06 am

RustyHook wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:34 am
Thank you for the info!
I agree about the felt drag. Shimanos upper models have great line lay.

Speaking of line lay, I just got to see the line lay of Shimanos premier surf casting spinning reel. The Aero Techinum MGS it has the Long Stroke Spool plus Super Slow Oscillation 10 (had never heard of it). 107 rotor to spool rotations per spool stroke. To me that's insane!?! It's as if the spool is not moving up/down. The line lay is beautiful. The spool itself a marvel. Shimano really has the line lay mastered overall on spinning reel IMO.
Damn, that is nuts! That is essentially ~ 53.5 per upwards and downwards stroke of spool rotations. I guess there's no denying that this design is meant for 100 yard + casts?
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Re: 2020 TP 3000MHG vs 2013 Certate 2510R-PE

Post by RustyHook » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:41 pm

Yes. Do a YouTube search and watch the video of the rotor spool action. It's sick. I have never seen such a consistent tight line spool.

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