High quality ul hardbait rod

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Finesse Angler
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High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Finesse Angler » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:45 am

Currently looking for a nice ultralight hardbaits rod that can also work soft plastics pretty well. Currently I fish an ms-x 6’4” ul and I like the tip but would prefer a little less backbone. I saw a video out of Australia of the old shimano fire blood 1-2kg and I really like the butt length and would love to find a rod with a similar handle length. Main targets would be panfish and small bass.

ss30378
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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by ss30378 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:43 pm

How long of a rod are you looking for? I’m running an edge silver widow 721 on a casting build (also available in spinning) and have been doing very well catch bass and some stocked rainbow trout. Soft but not a noodle and has enough give to not rip hooks out of trout and crappie.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Finesse Angler » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:32 pm

ss30378 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:43 pm
How long of a rod are you looking for? I’m running an edge silver widow 721 on a casting build (also available in spinning) and have been doing very well catch bass and some stocked rainbow trout. Soft but not a noodle and has enough give to not rip hooks out of trout and crappie.
Somewhere around 6-6’10”. Not looking at bass ultralights as that’s what the ms-x is, and while it’s a great rod one the fish fights past the tip action the backbone will control most anything under 5-6lbs with relative ease. Really wanting something that can let small fish put up a fight while not being an area trout rod, but call throw small crank baits and jerkbaits.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by LowRange » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:06 pm

Avoid anything with BF or BFS in it. That means it's a bass stick and will have a pretty decent backbone and lifting power to control fish around cover. The Kying Teton TTC 66L sounds like the right taper for what you want but is not high end stick. I always assumed one of the Majorcraft trout sticks would be the next logical step up above the Teton.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Finesse Angler » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:38 pm

I should have been more clear. I am looking for an UL spinning rod. Not a bfs or casting rod.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Alphahawk » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 am

I would look at a stream trout rod.


Regards

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Finesse Angler » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:48 pm

Alphahawk wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 am
I would look at a stream trout rod.


Regards
I have thought about that very seriously. I have a wide stream that I picked up about four years ago from finesse-fishing and love it. Looked into the tenryu rods in both their stream options and one of their stiffer area rods all around the six foot length. Do you happen to know of any stream rods that have a split handle and not solid cork? It isn’t that big of a deal but I do prefer the split handle when not fishing for trout in a stream specifically.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Alphahawk » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:50 am

Finesse Angler wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:48 pm
Alphahawk wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 am
I would look at a stream trout rod.


Regards
I have thought about that very seriously. I have a wide stream that I picked up about four years ago from finesse-fishing and love it. Looked into the tenryu rods in both their stream options and one of their stiffer area rods all around the six foot length. Do you happen to know of any stream rods that have a split handle and not solid cork? It isn’t that big of a deal but I do prefer the split handle when not fishing for trout in a stream specifically.
There are none. I too prefer the split grip but on JDM stream rods full cork is the only way they come.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by hoohoorjoo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:05 pm

I had to have a custom rod built to meet my expectations of an ultralight casting rod for small cranks.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by Schlag » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:05 pm

It may be difficult to find, but an AGS 62ML-B Presso rod would be an excellent choice.

Here's a comparison of the Pixy 6'6" MLF, Presso & Dobyns DX702. The Presso dosn't have that BFS backbone, and it didn't fish like a typical trout rod. It's one of the rods I wish that I didn't sell.

Image

Image

Image

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by slimjim1135 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:22 am

If you're looking for a high-end stick, consider Tenryu Rayz. It's a stream trout rod series, but the L or even ML options they have will probably fit your bill perfectly. Stream trout rods that are rated ~3-10 grams will be good for small fish, and still serve you well if you land into a lunker. The Rayz has a good bit of spinning rod options available, and the RZ632S-L is designed as a "jerkin" hardbait rod specifically, but should work with soft plastics too.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by DavidFishingCA » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:17 am

I've been interested in this subject for a while and have tried quite a few different types of rods (light game, area trout, stream trout) to find the best hardbait rod for trout.  Rod choice really depends on what types of hardbaits you want to work.  These rods tend to have softer tips relative to bass rods so they "max out" if you try and work too heavy or too deep diving of a lure.

So far my favorite rod for this application is the M&N Corporation Twitching Speciale in the 608 length.  It's a stream trout rod meant for fishing rivers.  It can handle the Megabass X-80 Jr. and X-70 without much stress but begins to struggle with the X-75 Nanahan - you really have to rip the X-75 in order to get it to dart side to side.  I'd say its sweet spot is working 4-5 gram hardbaits like the Smith Panish 70 and its upper limit is a 6 gram hardbait like the Ijetlink Megalara 77.

For non hard baits, it can throw spoons down to 1.7 grams just fine, but the action is not ideal for working minijig type soft plastics the way most SoCal anglers prefer (soft tip, slow gentle bounce a.k.a. slow tip recovery).  Only an area trout rod would have soft enough tip to impart that kind of cadence and even then the tip recovery is too fast.  However, if you jig TroutMagnetMan style then the rod will work for that. An area trout rod will also really struggle to impart action to a hardbait due to the soft tip (my heaviest area rod that can throw lures past 7 grams struggles with even a Panish 70 which has very low water resistance. 

The M&N has a pretty decent parabolic bend with the first third bending with a 12" stocker and a deeper parabolic bend with bigger fish (the middle ground between light game rods that shut off in the first third and area trout rods that bend to the handle) with approximately 1lb of drag.

Sensitivity wise compared to a light game rod like the Salty Sensations Scout Master, the M&N rod is noticeably less sensitive with low stretch lines like ester or braid (you get a milder feel in hand not the jarring rumble pack feeling). With a stretchier line like fluoro the sensitivity is pretty close. Not sure why this is the case.

Two things you might want to keep in mind as well: butt length and guide size.  Lots of stream trout rods have short butt sections to make 1 handed casting easier which is annoying if you prefer 2 handed casting.  Guides on rods meant for river (rather than stream) fishing tend to be optimized for braid and tend to cast fluorocarbon less well.  For example my M&N has a line rating of 2-5lbs but starts to struggle with lines thicker than 3lb Seaguar R18 LTD; it casts braid/mono/ester much smoother with less friction with the guides.

Hope this helps!

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by DavidFishingCA » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:58 am

There are also jerkbait rods specifically for area trout (a.k.a. area minnowing rods) like the Chase & Bite Puzzle series PZ-601LS and PZ-511MS. Halcyon System has the Rhyzmo series as well. If you search up area trout minnowing on YouTube you'll be able to see the rods in action.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by timinmo » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:59 am

I don't know if it is an option for you but a custom can be anything/everything you want. I have been using a NFC CB661 Moderate UL it is rated for 1/16 to 5/16 so I'm not sure that blank would serve your needs. If you are able to go custom I would suggest you look at some UL blanks. Most are listed as spinning but they can be built as anything you want.

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Re: High quality ul hardbait rod

Post by reason162 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:46 pm

DavidFishingCA wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:17 am
but begins to struggle with the X-75 Nanahan - you really have to rip the X-75 in order to get it to dart side to side. 
I noticed this too with the X nanahan - you would think it's a finessey type JB but you really have to crack it to get it to slash - it looks great when worked properly.

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