Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

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Smead
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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:12 pm

Today I received the Made in Japan SS 700 reeI that I recently nabbed...took it apart, cleaned and re-assembled.

Decent to work on, engineered pretty well really...simple. Line lay is very good.

Reading more of the Kaki articles regarding Japan versus Thailand quality, I believe that he doesn't like the bearings they used in them back then. The balls are spaced with some synthetic rubber cage that looks to be part of a seal provided on one side of the bearing. The existing ones in my reel seemed usable enough though. On the SS700 2 like this of the same size were on the pinion and the left side of the main gear. The bearing on the right side of the gear was a different size and completely shielded though.

I did measure foot length...around 2 5/16" on the SS 700 and 2 1/2" on the SS 1300. Both fit on the rod types I tried...St Croix, Daiwa and an Ugly Stik.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Bronzeye » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:15 pm

I stand redirected! Thanks, uljersey!

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by BigG » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:25 am

Used to get spinning rods with Tennessee Handles (no reel set) and use black electrical tape to put them on. With the TN handle you could move your reel wherever you wanted it. Never had a issue with the tape.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:47 am

I'd say that the tape is better with a Tenn seat too since metal rings can tear up a reel foot and non metal rings can flex and even stretch.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by dv1 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:13 pm

Ok. I should update a few reels soon and all this talk of the SS tournaments has me wondering if I should get these instead of a Stradic, Ballistic, or similar price point reel.

My biggest worry is that the lack of anti-reverse will bother me. I currently run mainly $120ish older Stradics, Cabelas Prodigys made by Daiwa. All have be completely trouble free. Now, stradics are $200 though, not $120. The Prodigys are up to $150.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by uljersey » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:24 pm

dv1 wrote:Ok. I should update a few reels soon and all this talk of the SS tournaments has me wondering if I should get these instead of a Stradic, Ballistic, or similar price point reel.

My biggest worry is that the lack of anti-reverse will bother me. I currently run mainly $120ish older Stradics, Cabelas Prodigys made by Daiwa. All have be completely trouble free. Now, stradics are $200 though, not $120. The Prodigys are up to $150.
You'll either appreciate the simpleness and bare bones functionality of it or you'll obsess over the lack of modern amenities and hate it. You won't know until you fish with it. If you do get one and decide it's not for you, you'll have no problems selling it.

It DOES have an anti reverse, it's just not the roller bearing type that's widely in use today. Its a pawl and directional tooth gear setup as seen in the picture. It's crazy strong and will never slip, it just isn't capable of instant engagement. It's never been an issue for me and I can't recall ever losing a fish due to the handle backing up a few degrees.

Image

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:10 pm

I have now torn apart, cleaned and re-lubed two of these reals...I really like them.

Having used both types of A/R's, as all those vintage reels that I like have mechanical A/R's with ratchet and pawl, I don't really feel that much difference between the two really.

Modern high end heavy duty reels usually have a mechanical A/R to backup the A/R roller bearing.

Also, after reading so much over the years regarding about grief over roller bearing design and function on numerous reels, the simplicity of design and function of mechanical A/R's has the appeal of one less thing to worry about.

I also do not like the current trend of deleting the roller A/R "on/off switch".

Other issues, like no line roller bearing, are less of a concern to me...and Daiwa seems to be getting rid of ball bearings in it's line rollers anyway. The SS reels use the same set up that late Mitchell 300's and 308's used, a Teflon bushing for the roller; no bearing to rust up, easy to oil and keep working.

My own experiments show that it is possible to bling up that handle too, if it just kills you. :D Though I have come to appreciate that side folding handle really...no need to unscrew anything.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Demoman » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:55 pm

No disrespect ment here; but do you guys consider these SS reels to be high quality? I've looked them over many times and in the hand they feel wobbly, unbalanced and very shoddy over all. A shop I frequent has a bunch of them on clearance and I kept thinking I'd buy one but I can't get passed the terrible balance of the rotor when turning the handle in retrieve. I tried several different ones they all seemed similarly off balance.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:56 pm

None taken...here you get opinions based on various levels of knowledge and experience.

I didn't get one for a long while because I heard the usual complaints.

I have only worked with made in Japan reels so far...would like to get a Thailand model to compare.

I have not experienced the excessive rotor wobble that some relate. Though there are some reels of other makers that wobble when not attached to a rod...many vontage reels are like that. if wobble were present on any reel, I would first make sure that nothing is loose, like the rotor nut, try it on a rod and then check the pinion bearing.

Some people have said that if there is wobble, the bail arm opposite the roller side can be weighted; there is plenty of room inside the arm. Some people use tungsten putty, other epoxy a small bit of weight. Again, I have not experienced wobble in my reels.

I think that a total lack of visual appeal may keep some buyers away...nowadays reels are designed and marketed like cars.

Tearing them down is simple, there's not much to go wrong with them internally.

Detail wise, besides the awesome drag, I noted misc features that appealed to me....like a steel axle and bail arms that are attached by pins and clips. I hate reels where the bail arms are attached with sheet metal screws into plastic. The axle and pinion had a nice slip fit regarding tolerances. The main gear is machined, not diecast or sintered metal. It has worm gear oscillation for line lay.

I'm sold on them, nothing being sold currently by Shimano, Daiwa, Quantum and Okuma currently at this price point appeals to me...especially after looking at schematics and/or tearing them down.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by FrankW » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:51 am

I find the SS to be clunky and heavy. I don't like the way the bail return works. They work and last a long time but I don't like them.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:02 am

Compared to USDM Steez and Certate, the weight difference is small.
Certate

http://www.daiwa.com/reel/detail.aspx?id=597

Steez

http://www.daiwa.com/reel/detail.aspx?id=652

SS

http://www.daiwa.com/reel/detail.aspx?id=43

Shimano's are known to be light reels...But:

A Shimano Stradic 1000FK weighs the same as the SS700.

The SS 1300 is close to the 2500 and 3000 sizes.

Stradic

http://fish.shimano.com/content/sac-fis ... radic.html

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by dv1 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:57 am

I do like the idea of 5° line cross wrap on the spool. Do any other reels do this?

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:45 pm

Hello!

Given that this cross wrap is intended to increase casting distance:

Seems like the complete requirements are a spool as long as possible from top to bottom and worm gear oscillation.

These SS reels have the longest spools that I have seen on a mass production general fishing reel still being made. There may be additional reels out there that others know of. AFAIK, only surf casting reels would have a longer spool, some also seem to be used in Europe for carp too, these reels are specialized and large; also there are tournament distance casting reels.

Other options perhaps.

Most other current Daiwas at the same price point seem to have locomotion style oscillation, rather than a worm gear...one exception would be the short lived Fuego A reels. BTW, Daiwa has brought back the name in the new Fuego SH reels...they are nothing like the Fuego A's...which did use a worm gear. They seem to be an upgrade of the Black and Gold Legalis SH line...they even share a number of parts. I do believe that the Fuego SH simply has more bearings, one being a CRBB.

The lowest price Shimano with a worm gear would be the Saros FA reels.

Both Daiwa and Shimano have their tech for yielding longer casts, for example Daiwa's reverse taper spools and Shimano's spool lip geometry and coating.

In the Japanese Domestic Market, you see a lot of long but shallow spools, essentially for casting ultralight lures with very small diameter line. Some members here have those reels, Though they are used to get a very light lure a decent distance; the shallowness of the spool really limits the line capacity.

Otherwise, vintage the Mitchell 308 family of reels used what was caused planamatic gearing to get a spool wrap that was their attempt to get a spool wrap that would give more distance. This was achieved using sort of an eccentric cam. If you use a shallow spool, this may work with light line, say #4.

Also, matching rod to reel and lure weight also must be considered when going for distance with light lures. You also want to have a spool that is properly filled, as per what the reel maker indicates.

Then there's also the type of line being used to consider.... :D

Given all the above, I came to the Daiwa SS reels because they already had the features mentioned. All I have to do is toss line on them, apply what I already know about casting light lures, and go.

This all being said regarding ultralight fishing; for heavier fishing...it's easier easier to get decent distance given the heavier lures used and etc. The SS reels would do well here too, as there is not only the 1300 size, but also a 1600 size reel available.

I consider the SS700 size my choice fo UL with #4 line and Light using #6 line.

I'm sure that others will chime in with their thoughts.

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by timsford » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:36 pm

What ways are there of blinging up the handle smead? I would be happy with being able to add a daiwa cork knob or even a shimano or lews knob. I've seen pics of the basszone carbon handles with Eva knobs on ebay installed on an ss700 and 1300 so I know they will work but I hate to spend 70 on a handle and still not like the knob. These reels are the real deal. I caught almost every single fish I got in for 15 years on a 1300as and used it for everything from light roostertails to deep diving bass cranks and never one issue. still the long casting champ for me

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Re: Daiwa Tournament SS Reel

Post by Smead » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:43 am

Hello!

Actually, for the SS1300 at least, I got a Fuego 2000SH handle to fit...the hex shaft sizes are both 4.5mm; but the Fuego handle shaft handle nearly to the end of the SS main gear...you can't use that plastic insert, but not a major issue. The interior screw thread on the end of the SS handle matches the Fuego, to the SS screw and the Fuego end cap thread are the same.

If you do this, there are some considerations:

You could leave the new handle's shaft length alone and perhaps use a washer under the SS screw.

If a new handle is used, you won't be able to fold this new handle as you are used to with new reels, that may not be an issue.

You could also chop the replacement handle end down a bit with a dremel...the thread goes pretty deep; then you again could use that plastic insert. Not essential though.

I'll put some pictures up shortly...I'm still refining it a bit; but using a current handle seems very doable. Looks like any current Daiwa 2000 sixe handle will work on the SS1300.

My major concern was that the hew handle might strike the bail...it does not, no conflict at all.

I also want to come up with something similar for the SS700 if possible.

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