Dream Stream BFS Rod

How small is your rod and how light is your line? It's not about the size of your tackle, but how you work it. Come share your Ultralight and Bait Finesse System (BFS) fishing success here!
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Hobie-Wan Kenobi
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Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by Hobie-Wan Kenobi » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:32 am

What are some things you look for in a BFS rods for streams? A lot of different opinions on here (none of which are wrong) and I am curious to what everyone thinks.

Glass/Carbon
Fancy/Simple
Power
Taper
Grip length
Reel seat
Color of blank/threads
...pretty much anything
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jvelth74
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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by jvelth74 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:24 am

First it must be:
- Easy to cast lures I use. Usually 2 - 5 grams. Must be abble to cast 10 g, but it's not needed to be casted longer than 3 g. It's bonus if rod can cast 1 g.
- Fun with fish
- Comfortable reel seat / handle
- Short rod for bushes. Something 4'6" is pretty perfect for me.
And moreover to that, it's nice if it:
- Good sensitiveness from lure to hand
- Reel seat is good especially for palming
- Short grip, but a little longer than my palm (because if I want sometimes to attach GoPro to rod :) )
- Casts long keeping in mind that it is very short rod
- Durable because it will be hit to braches in a bushes
- It's trout fishing for me. So rod should not be backbone more than needed for good casting charasterics. Rod is better to be as noodle as possible keeping in mind that it should cast neatly.
- Is not uggly
- Strong enough, not to break if I get rogue fish and decide to use serious brake with my strong braided line

I tried list my preferences from most important to less important

Ares is very good :) Hoping that Trout Master III is a little better in some features. Better looking it's not.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by tincanary » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:03 am

I really love a glass blank, ever since I got the Finetail Stream Glass I think rather highly of it. The last time I used a glass rod was when Reagan was in office. These newer glass rods are far different from the ones I grew up using, more sensitive, a nice fast recovery, and pretty light by comparison. Being that I'm usually fishing baits from about 2g up to 7g, I'd say a rod rated up to 10g would be ideal for me. Something light power is my favorite, not too big for brookies but capable of handling the occasional 20" brown or rainbow. For a seat, I'm really liking the wood used in the JDM rods, they look a lot more classy than your usual Fuji seat. I prefer a moderate fast taper, sometimes even moderate if it's a longer rod, but I tend towards rods of 5'6" or less since I primarily fish brush choked creeks.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by slimjim1135 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:36 am

Since getting into BFS last year, I've had 11 different rods specifically for streams, and overall, I agree with Tincanary. The new Major Craft Finetail Glass series is a real gem and has checked about every box I've asked of it. I've been hunting for the perfect rod for the warmwater streams near my house, that I could also take trout fishing and the Major Craft Finetail Glass in 4'6" is it.

To answer your question about a dream stream rod in much more detail:

Length -
--The 4'6" seems to be the sweet spot in my book. I have a Palms Egeria, the 4'7" Ares and two Major Crafts in this length and it's just all around perfect for long casts in streams as well as the thorniest brush. I also had a 5', and keep a 5'3", but the 4'6" goes into my hands the most for whatever reason. It's just the glove that fits me best. The differences between 4'6" and 5' rods is mostly negligible in my hands though.
--Shorter rods get a little too stiff for my taste, and lack feel with even the tiniest bit of slack line. While I can't really tell the difference between 4'6" and 5', I can really tell the difference between 4'6" and 4'2" and then it gets more noticeable when shorter than that.
--Longer rods can be OK. I like area rods for their sensitivity, good hooksets despite being noodles, and ability to throw the sub-1 gram lures longest amongst any of the rods I own. For streams though, a longer length past 6' can be awkward to cast while wading or pitching.

Material -
--Carbon - I have an Ares and it casts beautifully, and is a ridiculously fantastic rod for trout on moving baits. Sensitivity is also terrific. That said, it's the noodliest material and hook sets with small hooks into bass and bonier-mouthed fish aren't nearly as good as the other materials. I'd like to try a faster carbon rod though to see if that helps.
--Graphite - The fastest, but least sensitive at the shorter lengths. MF actions on graphite are the sweet spot for me, but for general stream use, I prefer other materials. That said, for river fishing larger waters, graphite is my go-to.
--Glass. Slower than graphite, faster than carbon. Casts great. Perfectly sensitive, and drives a good hook set, regardless of how worn down the hook is. It's easily my favorite for streams.

Guides -
This is a big one that's made a huge difference in how rods behave for me on the water. Micro guides don't cast the lightest stuff nearly as far. I love my Palms Egeria, but the micro guides definitely hinder distance a bit when I'm casting .75 grams.
Guide placement is another consideration. For the aforementioned 4'6" length, guides perform better for me when the first guide is about 11-12 inches from the reel. The Ares is about 16 inches from the reel, and through the course of a 4 hour fishing trip, I seem to wrap my line around the guides a lot more often with it than with the rods that have the first guide placed closer to the reel.

Power -
Personally for streams, I like something as extra ultra light as possible. I don't think I throw anything more than 5g, and even that's a rare stretch for the streams I fish. I like throwing chunky flies at decent-sized fish, but even heavy flies I wrap with wire aren't more than 2g. I mostly fish 0.6-1g set ups when I'm targeting panfish and (very) small bass, my heaviest trout lures are that 5g, and when I see gar or cats or carp or big bass in a stream, even those lures aren't more than 5g.
Bigger bodies of water, ponds and rivers I like rods up to 1/4oz (or even 3/8oz in some scenarios), but for streams, >1g-5g range is perfect for me. Further, I've never felt like a rod rated only up to 5g couldn't handle throwing a heavier lure, but when a rod is rated for 1/16oz at the low end, I don't think I've had much luck throwing 1/32oz, if that makes sense.

Taper -
Moderate Fast. A little whip for casting and moving lures, but fast enough to get a light wire single barbless penetrated.

Grip -
I like shorter grips on the thinner side. Longer grips work on longer rods, but in streams there's not much need for anything longer than necessary.
Chunkier handles, like the one on the bass BFS Dobyns Sierra are fine to hold, but when flicking light lures in tight spaces, I'm mostly palming the reel anyway.
Pistol grips are fun as well, but not for everyone. Feed Lures rods with pistol grips are fun and castable, but probably not the best for stream fishing.
Not a huge fan of how Major Craft has that off-set angled handles on their shorter length rods. It's thin and feels good, but the offset does nothing for me.
Similarly, split grips don't make sense for stream rods either for me. My area rod has a split grip and my hands are a good bit bigger than the cork, which makes general hand placement awkward. Full, thin cork handles all the way.

Finish -
Nothing too gaudy, but otherwise an eccentric color palette has never dissuaded me from getting a rod. I'd personally like to see a color choice that resembles old fiberglass fly rods, without being too offensive. I do prefer graphite or black for the reel seat hoods though. Most of the BFS reels people use are either black or a darker gunmetal, and brighter silver reel seat hoods stick out as a mismatch for me.

Conclusion -
Based on the above thoughts, my dream stream rod would be a 4'6" glass rod, with a MF taper, rated for >1-5g lures. 8-9 Fuji SiC-S (slim SiC) guides. Thin, short cork grip with a skeleton reel seat and black reel seat hood. White rod blank with gray and black thread wraps.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by Hobie-Wan Kenobi » Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:59 am

slimjim1135 wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:36 am
Since getting into BFS last year, I've had 11 different rods specifically for streams, and overall, I agree with Tincanary. The new Major Craft Finetail Glass series is a real gem and has checked about every box I've asked of it. I've been hunting for the perfect rod for the warmwater streams near my house, that I could also take trout fishing and the Major Craft Finetail Glass in 4'6" is it.

To answer your question about a dream stream rod in much more detail:

Length -
--The 4'6" seems to be the sweet spot in my book. I have a Palms Egeria, the 4'7" Ares and two Major Crafts in this length and it's just all around perfect for long casts in streams as well as the thorniest brush. I also had a 5', and keep a 5'3", but the 4'6" goes into my hands the most for whatever reason. It's just the glove that fits me best. The differences between 4'6" and 5' rods is mostly negligible in my hands though.
--Shorter rods get a little too stiff for my taste, and lack feel with even the tiniest bit of slack line. While I can't really tell the difference between 4'6" and 5', I can really tell the difference between 4'6" and 4'2" and then it gets more noticeable when shorter than that.
--Longer rods can be OK. I like area rods for their sensitivity, good hooksets despite being noodles, and ability to throw the sub-1 gram lures longest amongst any of the rods I own. For streams though, a longer length past 6' can be awkward to cast while wading or pitching.

Material -
--Carbon - I have an Ares and it casts beautifully, and is a ridiculously fantastic rod for trout on moving baits. Sensitivity is also terrific. That said, it's the noodliest material and hook sets with small hooks into bass and bonier-mouthed fish aren't nearly as good as the other materials. I'd like to try a faster carbon rod though to see if that helps.
--Graphite - The fastest, but least sensitive at the shorter lengths. MF actions on graphite are the sweet spot for me, but for general stream use, I prefer other materials. That said, for river fishing larger waters, graphite is my go-to.
--Glass. Slower than graphite, faster than carbon. Casts great. Perfectly sensitive, and drives a good hook set, regardless of how worn down the hook is. It's easily my favorite for streams.

Guides -
This is a big one that's made a huge difference in how rods behave for me on the water. Micro guides don't cast the lightest stuff nearly as far. I love my Palms Egeria, but the micro guides definitely hinder distance a bit when I'm casting .75 grams.
Guide placement is another consideration. For the aforementioned 4'6" length, guides perform better for me when the first guide is about 11-12 inches from the reel. The Ares is about 16 inches from the reel, and through the course of a 4 hour fishing trip, I seem to wrap my line around the guides a lot more often with it than with the rods that have the first guide placed closer to the reel.

Power -
Personally for streams, I like something as extra ultra light as possible. I don't think I throw anything more than 5g, and even that's a rare stretch for the streams I fish. I like throwing chunky flies at decent-sized fish, but even heavy flies I wrap with wire aren't more than 2g. I mostly fish 0.6-1g set ups when I'm targeting panfish and (very) small bass, my heaviest trout lures are that 5g, and when I see gar or cats or carp or big bass in a stream, even those lures aren't more than 5g.
Bigger bodies of water, ponds and rivers I like rods up to 1/4oz (or even 3/8oz in some scenarios), but for streams, >1g-5g range is perfect for me. Further, I've never felt like a rod rated only up to 5g couldn't handle throwing a heavier lure, but when a rod is rated for 1/16oz at the low end, I don't think I've had much luck throwing 1/32oz, if that makes sense.

Taper -
Moderate Fast. A little whip for casting and moving lures, but fast enough to get a light wire single barbless penetrated.

Grip -
I like shorter grips on the thinner side. Longer grips work on longer rods, but in streams there's not much need for anything longer than necessary.
Chunkier handles, like the one on the bass BFS Dobyns Sierra are fine to hold, but when flicking light lures in tight spaces, I'm mostly palming the reel anyway.
Pistol grips are fun as well, but not for everyone. Feed Lures rods with pistol grips are fun and castable, but probably not the best for stream fishing.
Not a huge fan of how Major Craft has that off-set angled handles on their shorter length rods. It's thin and feels good, but the offset does nothing for me.
Similarly, split grips don't make sense for stream rods either for me. My area rod has a split grip and my hands are a good bit bigger than the cork, which makes general hand placement awkward. Full, thin cork handles all the way.

Finish -
Nothing too gaudy, but otherwise an eccentric color palette has never dissuaded me from getting a rod. I'd personally like to see a color choice that resembles old fiberglass fly rods, without being too offensive. I do prefer graphite or black for the reel seat hoods though. Most of the BFS reels people use are either black or a darker gunmetal, and brighter silver reel seat hoods stick out as a mismatch for me.

Conclusion -
Based on the above thoughts, my dream stream rod would be a 4'6" glass rod, with a MF taper, rated for >1-5g lures. 8-9 Fuji SiC-S (slim SiC) guides. Thin, short cork grip with a skeleton reel seat and black reel seat hood. White rod blank with gray and black thread wraps.
Wow. Quite the write up. With using 8-9 guides, would line rub be a big issue under load? Is spiral wrapping assumed or, living with line rubbing is just something that is expected?
IG @hobie_wan_kenobi_fishing

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by jvelth74 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:57 am

^ Yeah ... pretty perfect wrote up...

Amount of guide rings ... Yesterday when I was bending Tsurinoya Ares & Trout Master..: Line between guides went's below rod blank before than rod's was fully loaded. Thinking it wouldn't be bad if there would be more rings (or spiral wrap). But rod's was loaded a lot of in that point, so I'm not sure what is necessary in the fishing situation.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by slimjim1135 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:05 am

I can definitely see line hitting the blank when a rod with 9 guides is loaded up, but I don't think adding more guides would help in real-life fishing scenarios.

Line rubbing has ever been an issue for me. On 6lb line max and in most stream conditions, more likely under extreme load I'd expect my knot to break before line rub becomes an issue. If this was for saltwater or bigger game, there might be a need for more guides, but for stream fishing, 8-9 guides for rods up to about 5'6" is ideal for me. More guides than that and it's unnecessary weight and a potential loss in sensitivity and a weirder action.

I think solid tip rods typically have a few more guides to follow the natural curve of the rod under load, but solid tips are their own animal, and wouldn't be ideal for stream scenarios.

When looking at the top quality stream BFS rods currently being built, I see 7-9 guides on all the finished rods around the 4'6"-5' range. Looking at Anglo & Co, Smith, Daiwa, and Tenryu, I see 7-8 guides on average for glass models, and 8-9 for non-glass. They're currently the benchmark for dream stream rods, so that's part of the rationale behind the guide amount choice on my end.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by jvelth74 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:34 am

Neither do I consider this big issue if in BFS rod line goes under blank in between guides in extreme stress of rod.

But fact is that this predisposes blank to added stress in between guides and rod will break more easily than with bigger amount of guides.

But still I don't know anybody broken so-far-flawless BFS rod with fish. Breaking rod can be done by high sticking, but personally I don't have heard neither that. Probably BFS rods don't need more guides than those are having.

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Re: Dream Stream BFS Rod

Post by Dalleinf » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:38 pm

Opinions will differ by personal preference and also the very different waters and fish we target. HWK, I saw your video on the beautiful and nice Handy Pak Net. Such a small net, while nice and well built, would be of very little use to me. Most trout I catch are 45-50 cm and many are above 60 cm. I often have to reach far to net my fish.

As with net my rod preference is probably different from yours.

I typically need a rod with some backbone and some length to reach over grass and other obstacles.

I have 3 new very nice custom glass rods, which I still consider niche products. Glass is fun to fish, but I much prefer carbon.
So:
Carbon blank. Moderate-fast.
Length about 6’ when trees and little grass, otherwise 8’.
Casting weight 2-10 gram.
Cork handle (but I like others as well).
I used to prefer a simple classic look, but have become increasingly fond of gaudy :-)

Pic of some of my favorite rods from Resilure.
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