Constructing a sub-7' enthusiast-level heavy pitching stick (tip-down frogging + bottom-contact sensitivity)

[BassKat]

I cannot find a fast to extra-fast enthusiast-level heavy pitching stick under 7' (preferably 6'8" to 6'10") for tip-down frog walking with very high sensitivity to detect light jig pickups. So, I want to consider blank options for building one.

I'm looking for a blank with NRX/Steez sensitivity, floating balance (not tip heavy), a true fast to extra fast taper (not fast-moderate) with a pitching tip, and heavy to heavy+ power to throw up to @1.5ozs "around" heavy cover. I'm not looking for a broomstick for fishing deep in the slop, so I want to avoid extra-heavys with swimbait-like weight ratings.

Some recommended NFC's X-Ray blanks or Phenix K2s, but I do not see any heavy to heavy+ options under 7' for either. I know the Phenix Ultra MBX is not a bad blank at all. It comes in an XH (Phenix's Heavy, I hear) in a 7', but I'm not sure if cutting 3" off the butt would disrupt the performance of the blank. Of course, I'd like to know even more sensitive options than the Ultra MBX.

Since I've struck out on X-Rays and K2, I'd be thankful for suggestions on other hyper-sensitive blanks to consider.

[Hogsticker2]

The new Rainshadow Eternity blanks might be worth a look. Plenty sensitive, nice blanks. I've read many comments comparing them to or liking better than the X Ray. They have a 7'4 heavy you could trim down. Not sure how much power you want, but this is gonna be a banger with 912 grams of power. The 7'4 medium heavy has 681 grams of power, which is quite a bit.

[BassKat]

Thanks, Hogsticker! Do you think 6" is too much to trim off that 7'4" Rainshadow Eternity to get it down to 6'10". If not, the K2 7′3″ Heavy (1/2-2 oz) might be trimmed 5" to 6'10". How do the Rainshadow Eternity compare to the K2s?

Does anyone know if there's a rule of thumb for the percentage that can generally be trimmed off a blank without significantly disrupting its performance/engineering? The cuts contemplated above represent 6-7%.

[Hogsticker2]

Thanks, Hogsticker! Do you think 6" is too much to trim off that 7'4" Rainshadow Eternity to get it down to 6'10". If not, the K2 7′3″ Heavy (1/2-2 oz) might be trimmed 5" to 6'10". How do the Rainshadow Eternity compare to the K2s?

Does anyone know if there's a rule of thumb for the percentage that can generally be trimmed off a blank without significantly disrupting its performance/engineering? The cuts contemplated above represent 6-7%.

You can typically trim 3-4 inches before the blank changes much. The Eternity is going to be a little stiffer / stout than the K2. The K2 should flex a little deeper into the blank before it shuts off. As for sensitivity, I don't think you're going to notice much of a difference other than the taper. To be honest, the majority of what I use and prefer is Point Blank. I'm my subjective opinion, these are just outstanding blanks. Transmission feedback feels different from these. They have a lasting resonance affect I haven't felt in many other rods. It's not just that initial jolt with a little reverb. The tapers are perfect for my tastes, more in line with JDM rods, opposed to typing USDM offerings.
If you're looking at that heavy Eternity with over 900 grams of power, I would imagine it's going to be a bit of a broomstick. Point Blank has a 7'3 heavy - 650 grams of power. You could cut it down to 6'11. Cheaper than the K2s as well.

[BassKat]

Thanks, HS2! I agree...the 900+g of power is overkill. Overpowered rods ruin the fun for me. Within the Rainshadow line, I'd need to consider the 7'2" Medium Heavy (ETEC72MH-SS) with 681g of power and a lure rating of 3/8-1oz, but I'd really like to be able to handle at least 1 1/4oz on the high side.

With the K2s, the action sounds a little too moderate for me. I have great concerns with moderate actions driving double frog hooks home on strikes toward the end of far casts.

That leaves Point Blank which was sounding great, but when I clicked on the rod's "hard specs" link, it gave me the specs (below) with 1oz as the low end of its weight range. I throw the Kaera (just 1/2oz) a ton when the bite's slow, and the Sneaky Evo is my favorite frog at 7/8oz, so I must have something that loads well with as low as 1/2oz.

Any other input would be greatly appreciated.


PB731HXF
Length: 7 ft 3 in
Action Angle: XF • 67-degrees (RDA) • 77-degrees (CCS)
Power: Hvy / 650gr (RDA) • ERN 28.6 (CCS)
Weight: 2.29oz.
Butt Dia: 14.48 mm
Tip Size: 1.83mm (5.0)
Lure Wt: 1 to 2oz
Sugg Line Wt: 12-20lb mono
20-30lb braid

[dennis_rf]

Here’s some literature on the 7‘3 H
http://www.tackletour.com/reviewpointbl ... blank.html
And me being disappointed as it doesn’t feel as floaty in hand as expected
http://www.tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=88951

[dennis_rf]

That’s the PB731HXF with 16oz of load
Can try to emulate being cut down later

IMG_8917.jpeg (23.5 KiB) Viewed 15271 times

[Hogsticker2]

I think the PB would be fine, especially with the versatility and extra fast tip section. My guess is that it can go lighter and likely fishes a little lighter than advertised. Seems to be the case with most of the blanks I've used. You could always call them and see what they say.

[dennis_rf]

heres the deflection of the PB731HXF in 100g steps from 0 to 900g

PB731HXF.png (62.94 KiB) Viewed 15256 times

and this one for reference is the old Zodias 172H (adjusted position of pb for the 1" difference in length) , I think the soft tip of the 731HXF is what made it land closer to a MH average in Cal's RoD Deflection chart. I think the Zodias would score a little bit stronger than H in the RoD.

PB731HXF vs oldZodias 172H.png (39.26 KiB) Viewed 15256 times

[BassKat]

Dennis, thanks for the info! Cal's build on this rod shows that the rod's lure-weight ratings have been updated to .5oz - 1.25oz, which is a perfect range for me. Hogsticker, I have a reminder to call Anglers Resource to confirm lure weights when they reopen after NYE and will post. The only remaining concern is - does the PB731HXF have enough power to drive double frog hooks at a distance. Any input you guys have on that would be greatly appreciated!

Dennis, since your outcome wasn't perfect with the PB731HXF, do you have any other blank candidates for this concept?

Thanks a lot!

[BassKat]

Also, I think the taper looks just fast enough "if" there's enough power to drive double frog hooks at a distance.

[dennis_rf]

Unfortunately I’ve never fished with classic hollow body frogs for bass as they’re not native to Germany. The few times a year we drive to Italy to fish bass they were always biting sth else
… so I wouldn’t know how strong a rod needs to be to drive home these hooks… sorry

Also no other blanks in mind for that job, that’s why I ordered the Revoltage frog rod in the end…

But here are pics of the 731HXF next to the PB691MHXF, pushed back the 7’3 so it’s the same length as the 6‘9. It takes some more weight to bend it as deep, but I tried to show how the action becomes slower than the 6’9s action when you cut the blank that much.
I’d assume cutting it that much will bring back the floaty feeling though. Maybe I’ll re-build it some day

Same depth of bend

IMG_8938.jpeg (14.79 KiB) Viewed 15212 times

Same load (540g)

IMG_8937.jpeg (15.01 KiB) Viewed 15212 times

[BassKat]

Wow, Dennis, I really appreciate your time and generosity in posting this info! Your study of the 7'3's performance, when reduced to 6'9 (6" cut), shows performance/engineering is substantially affected. Hogsticker's gut said somewhere in the 3-4" range was probably a max cut. The 6" cut you mocked up supports that and demonstrates 6" is likely too much, at least in this instance. I hope a quality rod/blank builder fills this void so such cuts aren't necessary.

[BassKat]

It seems that given my desire to cut to 6'10", I really need to find a blank no longer than 7'1". Problematically, there's not an XRay, K2, Point Blank, or Rainshadow blank that fits the bill without a 5 or 6" cut that would potentially undermine the rod's performance. Are there any other blank lines with comparably sensitive to the aforementioned? Thanks!

[MikeK]

MHX NEPS82HF
6' 10"
RDA 660g
Fast

Great info Dennis!